Ennies Judge Election Closed - Winners Inside

[Umbran]

Regardless, we see this even in real life, with the vast majority of people who are eligible to vote not voting in elections.

The fact that the entire public is dumb about voting is not an excuse for our particular subset to also be dumb.

I honestly don't know if it really impacts upon the legitimacy of the awards. My own guess is that it doesn't.

Consider that the convention at which these awards will be presented, GenCon, will have far more attendees than there are people voting. They'd get a far better sampling if they simply made voting on products part of the GenCon registration...

Given that this site is (rightfully) touted as the largest 3E fansite around, then inevitable an inescapable connection that folks will make is that the Ennies are in some way "the will of the people". Doesn't matter if Morrus doesn't present them that way, but people will think it.

After all, why else would publishers send free material to the judges? If it became common knowedge that only 300 people here voted, do you think the awards would be taken particularly seriously?

In the end, I think what we see is this - nearly 10,000 members. Only 300 vote. The voting is the arduous taks of clicking a few times at a website you frequently visit. In this light, I think this says that the "will of the people" is apathy. EN World, as a whole, doesn't seem to care much about the products...

This is not meant as a criticism of Morrus, or those who organize the awards, or the judges. It is a ctiticism of EN World as a whole. Here, the horse gets to state his preferences on what he wants to drink, simply and easily, and yet the horse cannot be bothered.

 

[Morrus]

Actually, I see it slightly differently.

I don't ever deceive myself into thinking the awards represent a 100% democratic turnout of every person qualified to voite, and that they absolutely therefore represent the will of the people. I see those who vote more as an "Academy". Unlike, say, the Oscars, the Academy's membership isn't fixed; but it is comprised of EN World visitors, who tend to be more informed that the average gamer.

So we have a fluctuating Academy, whose membership is open to any who care to vote. The result is that an informed (or more informed) sample of gamers vote. That sample is vastly greater than the number of judges, but is only a drop in the ocean when it comes to the numbers of gamers worldwide.

 

[ColonelHardisson]

Morrus, it was discussed above that the results could be viewed for the voting before people voted (I didn't know about this), which could thus skew the results. If there is a way to shut that off, so one could only view the results after one has voted, that would be preferrable, if it's possible. I guess this is more a suggestion for next year.

 

[Eridanis]

But has there been any consideration of limiting a person's license to judge to say three consecutive years, or some other arbitary term? Just a question of curiousity, since it's obvious that more than five people are willing (and likely qualified) to become ENnies judges.

I would be against such a move if it were a matter to be voted on. Judging's a heck of a lot of work, and I'm sure that as time passes, others will be able to rotate in as 'incumbents' decide to step aside, as Eric did this year.

For my part, I considered there only to be one open slot this year, since last year's group did such a bang-up job. Looks like we'll be getting 40% turnover this year, though, which pretty much disproves the need for "term limits," it seems to me.

And yes, perhaps next year, you could do the judge voting with a more formal webpage, like we do when we vote for the actual awards.

 

[Quickbeam]

On incumbancy - I also voted for incumbants, because they are the ones I think are most qualified for the job. One might want to consider, though, that if we always have the same judges, that the awards are somewhat less the "Ennies" and are a bit more the "These Five Guysies". Not an issue over a year or two, but in the long run, folks might start looking a little askance at it.

A much more eloquent means of making my point. Thanks. Is this something that will be reviewed/considered in future years?

As for the number of votes compared to EN World members, the totals are rather disappointing, and I'm somewhat shocked myself. How much of this can be attributed to possible doubts related to casting one's vote for people we have only read a blurb about? I ask because, I'd wager that most registered members are not frequent Board visitors/contributors, and as such these people may not want to randomly vote on issues such as these. Heck, depending on how often people visit EN World, they may miss the one week voting window.

 

[Quickbeam]

I would be against such a move if it were a matter to be voted on. Judging's a heck of a lot of work, and I'm sure that as time passes, others will be able to rotate in as 'incumbents' decide to step aside, as Eric did this year.

For my part, I considered there only to be one open slot this year, since last year's group did such a bang-up job. Looks like we'll be getting 40% turnover this year, though, which pretty much disproves the need for "term limits," it seems to me.

I thoroughly understand your point, but you posted as I was quoting Umbran. My primary concern is that this will become a mini Supreme Court situation, with limited (or no) turnover from one year to the next, resulting in reptitive voting patterns across the categories. Perhaps this isn't a big concern, and nothing will be done. But I think we need to find a means of encouraging new folks to volunteer, and of discouraging people from not bothering to vote because they assume the slate is essentially a foregone conclusion.

FWIW T-Bill, I voted for you because I'm trying to lure you into another Wings vs. Canucks bet. Your tush had nothing to do with things !

 

[Nikchick]

Not that it's relevant quite yet, but there are a couple of issues on the table which the judges will be tackling this year before they begin any judging:

1) Categories -- people have suggested a new PDF category.

2) 2nd/3rd place awards - several publishers have asked for these (Gold/Silver/Bronze...?)

3) That WotC issue again.

If you have an opinion on any of these issues, please take the time to weigh in and let the judges (whoever they end up being!) know in this thread.

I have no opinion on the PDF category, but I am perhaps one of the strongest supporters of the "medal" system of awards, ESPECIALLY if Wizards of the Coast's material continues to be considered. Our company is small, we work extremely hard and we put out competitive product, but there are only two of us working fulltime (and I hardly feel like I count, since I'm doing things like answering customer service e-mail or accounting or fixing computer networks, the creative side has *one* full-time person [Pramas]). As of last year, all we know is that we couldn't beat WotC, and I will admit to coming away from the awards feeling extremely depressed and defeated. There is just NO WAY our one-man, part-time webmaster can "compete" against Wizards of the Coast's full *department* of people who wrangle content, man the message boards, etc (for example). Did I think we could have won? I most certainly did; I think Evan does a knock-out job with the Green Ronin website and forums, and we have regular updates, tons of freebies, previews, links to external reviews, a retail locator, all the stuff the big guys have. I wouldn't have bothered to be a part of a competition if I didn't feel we had products that could realistically win, if there were no chance. If there had been a gold/silver/bronze rating last year, I wouldn't have felt so completely awful after the ceremony because there was still a chance that if we couldn't win against WotC's gigantic presence, we might still be able to come away knowing we'd been competitive against companies our own size.

There are dozens of new D20 releases every month, so I'm not concerned that by picking three top products the ENnies would be letting "everyone win." There are literally hundreds of products to choose from each year.

I have given the issue quite a bit of thought since last year, and I really do feel strongly that a system of awards such as those used in judging wines would raise the profile of the ENnies and would reward the efforts of the companies involved much more satisfactorily. Wineries aren't embarrassed or ashamed of their silver and bronze wins at wine tastings, they tout them! (Look here or here for just a couple examples.)

I guess that's my impassioned plea for tonight. Thanks for listening.

Nicole

 

[Lela]

I'll admit that I'm not a publisher and I only have my name on one freebie d20 source document (and only as a mention) but I still feel that the awards should be an all or nothing thing.

If you came away from the awards feeling depressed (and I mean this for everyone) you should come back more determined to beat the pants off WotC (or whomever beat you) next year.

One thing to consider is that third party companies only really came into their own (from my point of view) in the last 18 months. This combined with the decline in talant at WotC and their generally poorer products last year (with more of an impact this coming year) will result in more awards going to third partys.


And Nikchick, I would like to point out that I'm amazed a company will only 2 fill time empoyies recieved a nomination. That, by itself, says something about not only your talent but your determination and commitment as well. I'm impressed.

 

[Graf]

So how much of a chance for glory is there for other publishers, some of whom have excellent products but simply have less exposure?

Given that the last round of voting is basically a popularity contest the answer to this questions is nessessarily: just-about-zero.

But that's an effect of the way the contest itself is structured. (HINT: Let people vote Don't Know instead of forcing them to pick for every catagory....) Otherwise the distortions in voting for less well known catagories are pretty big.

 

[BigFreekinGoblinoid]

For purposes of reference in further dicsussion, here are last year's ENnie categories and winners:

1. Best D20 Game: Call of Cthulhu (Wizards of the Coast)
2. Best Adventure: If Thoughts Could Kill (Malhavoc Press)
3. Best Campaign Setting: Oriental Adventures (Wizards of the Coast)
4. Best Setting Supplement: Freeport: City of Adventure (Green Ronin Publishing)
5. Best Rules Supplement: Manual of the Planes (Wizards of the Coast)
6. Best Aid or Accessory: Dungeon/Polyhedron Magazine (Wizards of the Coast)
7. Best Cartography: Freeport: City of Adventure (Green Ronin Publishing)
8. Best Art (Interior): Deities & Demigods (Wizards of the Coast)
9. Best Art (Cover): Lord of the Iron Fortress (Wizards of the Coast)
10. Best Graphic Design and Layout: Call of Cthulhu (Wizards of the Coast)
11. Best Monster Supplement: Creature Collection II: Dark Menagerie [Scarred Lands] (Sword & Sorcery Studios)
12. Best Free Product or Web Enhancement: Portable Hole Full of Beer (Ambient)
13. Best Official Website: Wizards of the Coast
14. Best Fan Resource Site: SWRPGNetwork
15. Best Fan Campaign Site: Conan d20
16. Best Publisher: Wizards of the Coast
17. Special Award for Contribution to Open Gaming: Ryan Dancey
--------------------------------------------
There were 16 categories not counting the special award for Contribution to Open Gaming. WotC won 9 of the 14 categories that they were eligible for last year.

Even given that, I'm also of the opinion that there should not be mutliple awards per category. What may help allow more third party publishers a shot at an award is adding some new categories in areas where there is more product being produced.

Some ideas for new award categories:

- Best product under $10 USD or other "cheap" amount. Hello .pdfs ? Magazines are eligible too, but for specific issues only)

- Expand the adventure category to be multiple awards. Low/Med/High level adventure awards, or add a "Mega-Module" category award

- Best Race Book &
- Best Class Book - We already have a "Best "Monster Book" category, so why not add these? There are a LOT being produced- more than monster books! Perhaps a "Magic Book" category too

- Most consistant quality from a 3rd Party Publisher

These are just some less than completely thought out ideas that I would like to present to whomever will be selected as our judges.

To keep the ENnies the dynamic, well respected awards that they are, change must be constant, reflecting the current market's complexion.

-BFG

edit: minor spelling/format changes