ColonelHardisson
What? Me Worry?
Cergorach said:
WotC did not wish to enter it.
[ENnies] WotC on the outs
- Thread starter SemperJase
- Start date
WotC did not wish to enter it.
Cergorach
The Laughing One
ColonelHardisson said:
So why is it that everyone is complaining? WotC had the oppertunity to enter one of their products, but didn't.
I personally think that WotC produces some great D&D products, but because they don't produce anything OGL. As a result they function in a whole other league...
ColonelHardisson
What? Me Worry?
Cergorach said:
Because the point about what should be eligible is still up for discussion. Many feel there should be no restrictions, while others feel there should. Morrus has endeavored admirably to meet the demands of publishers and public alike in making the ENnies constantly grow and adapt. The type of discussion we're having is the same type of discussion we've had after every ENnies, which has always been encouraged. The awards are constantly evolving due to this discussion, which is a very good thing; it keeps the awards from becoming stagnant.
Psion
Adventurer
What I think:
First, I agree that MotP and OA are better than anything that has come out after WOtC fired half their staff. Note that WotC did not win even the non-open category. I think if they had entered d20 modern instead of the ELH (which many people DON'T like), they might have carried that category.
That said, if we were still operating under the same rules we were last year, I still have no doubt that they would have dominated again.
Is slanting the rules against WotC unfair? Perhaps. But the case could be (and has been) made that wizards does not operate under the same rules that d20 companies operating under the OGL do, and AFAIAC, part of the ennies is there to show the promise of the open game concept. I think we need to have some categories open.
What to do? Well, truth be told, I think that the award categories need some work. I still think we need to recognize the open game concept, and continue to have OGL only categories.
However, I don't think the "WotC aren't playing by the same rules" argument flies for the art and presentation categories, and I think those should be opened up at least to all d20 products (open or otherwise.)
Second, I think we need to have a few more non-open awards (perhaps, as joe suggested, an "official" category.)
First, I agree that MotP and OA are better than anything that has come out after WOtC fired half their staff. Note that WotC did not win even the non-open category. I think if they had entered d20 modern instead of the ELH (which many people DON'T like), they might have carried that category.
That said, if we were still operating under the same rules we were last year, I still have no doubt that they would have dominated again.
Is slanting the rules against WotC unfair? Perhaps. But the case could be (and has been) made that wizards does not operate under the same rules that d20 companies operating under the OGL do, and AFAIAC, part of the ennies is there to show the promise of the open game concept. I think we need to have some categories open.
What to do? Well, truth be told, I think that the award categories need some work. I still think we need to recognize the open game concept, and continue to have OGL only categories.
However, I don't think the "WotC aren't playing by the same rules" argument flies for the art and presentation categories, and I think those should be opened up at least to all d20 products (open or otherwise.)
Second, I think we need to have a few more non-open awards (perhaps, as joe suggested, an "official" category.)
Nikchick
Explorer
Baraendur said:
I think that's an unfair characterization of the awards. Green Ronin's showing was not nearly as "400 lb. gorilla" as you imply: most of our recognition was in the runner-up Silver ENnie categories. If you look at who ultimately won TOP honors, the Gold ENnies were spread out quite a bit!
Gold ENnie winners were:
Malhavoc Press (Best Adventure, Best Official Website, Best Publisher (Overall))
Fantasy Flight Games (Best Campaign Setting)
Privateer Press (Best Art (Interior), Best Cartography, Best Monster Supplement, Best Graphic Design & Layout, Best Art (Cover))
Expeditious Retreat Press (Best Setting Supplement, Best Electronic Product, Best Free Product or Web Enhancement)
Atlas Games (Best Rules Supplement, Best Non-Open Gaming Product)
Green Ronin Publishing (Best d20 Game, ENnies Peer Award)
RPG Objects (Best Aid or Accessory)
SWRPG Network (Best Resource Fan Site)
Conan d20 (Best Campaign Fan Site)
I think that's a remarkably fair and equitable spread of winners in some very, very tough categories.
Nicole
Ghostwind
First Post
One of the things that I found interesting was that fact that a few select products continually showed up in multiple categories time and time again with some of those products winning multiple awards (Green Ronin and Privateer Press). This is not to say that those products were not deserving of those awards because in some categories they were definitely (in my opinion) the better product. However, there are others where their wins were questionable given the competition.
A suggestion for next year's awards would be to limit any single product to one category. Publishers could not submit a product in general in the hopes it would be nominated for something. They must not only decide what award category best fits the strengths of the product, but also state so. For example, Monsternomicon could not be up for both Best Cover Art and Best Monster Supplement. Privateer would have to decide which category they stood the best chance winning when they submitted the product for consideration. This would offer a greater diversity of outstanding products and limit the overwhelming sweep that we've seen the past two years.
One of the biggest problems that both the Origins and Ennies face is that it boils down to what publishers can marshall their fans the most into voting. At the Origins, Avalanche Press won an award for Best Roleplaying Supplement for Celtic Age (give me a break) because it garnered the most votes. The same thing applies here at the ENnies. Green Ronin is very popular among EN Worlder's and gained substantial votes as a result every time one of their products was nominated. If a product was restricted to a single category, you would avoid the problem of having fans vote for it in every category it is listed just because they like that particular book.
Another problem with this years awards was the realtively small timeframe where the voting was open. It was hardly sufficient for publishers who do not necessarily frequent these boards or the site to get the word out about their nominated products. The time allotted for voting needs to be longer and sooner next year.
If you want publishers to get behind and support the awards (which, after speaking to many after the awards, will likely not enter next year), the awards must mean something to them. There has to be a tangible benefit and a reasonable opportunity to for a nomination and subsequent win. If there is not, the awards are meaningless to them and they will not feel inclined to participate. And if you cannot get everyone (or nearly everyone) on board, then the awards become useless in that they are not an accurate representation of the true scope of the d20 industry.
It is an interesting problem and one that has no easy answers, but limiting the products to a single category may help somewhat.
A suggestion for next year's awards would be to limit any single product to one category. Publishers could not submit a product in general in the hopes it would be nominated for something. They must not only decide what award category best fits the strengths of the product, but also state so. For example, Monsternomicon could not be up for both Best Cover Art and Best Monster Supplement. Privateer would have to decide which category they stood the best chance winning when they submitted the product for consideration. This would offer a greater diversity of outstanding products and limit the overwhelming sweep that we've seen the past two years.
One of the biggest problems that both the Origins and Ennies face is that it boils down to what publishers can marshall their fans the most into voting. At the Origins, Avalanche Press won an award for Best Roleplaying Supplement for Celtic Age (give me a break) because it garnered the most votes. The same thing applies here at the ENnies. Green Ronin is very popular among EN Worlder's and gained substantial votes as a result every time one of their products was nominated. If a product was restricted to a single category, you would avoid the problem of having fans vote for it in every category it is listed just because they like that particular book.
Another problem with this years awards was the realtively small timeframe where the voting was open. It was hardly sufficient for publishers who do not necessarily frequent these boards or the site to get the word out about their nominated products. The time allotted for voting needs to be longer and sooner next year.
If you want publishers to get behind and support the awards (which, after speaking to many after the awards, will likely not enter next year), the awards must mean something to them. There has to be a tangible benefit and a reasonable opportunity to for a nomination and subsequent win. If there is not, the awards are meaningless to them and they will not feel inclined to participate. And if you cannot get everyone (or nearly everyone) on board, then the awards become useless in that they are not an accurate representation of the true scope of the d20 industry.
It is an interesting problem and one that has no easy answers, but limiting the products to a single category may help somewhat.
Darrin Drader
Explorer
BryonD said:
**Sigh** Not this argument again.
Darrin Drader
Explorer
Nikchick said:
Good point, and I agree. I was just pointing out that all things considered, you did extremely well this year.
My buying decisions are normally based on nothing more than what appears to be the best quality product covering a certain subject, and even with the number of products released, I still probably own about 2/3 of all the GR books. The only publishers that have a greater presence on my bookshelf are Necromancer Games (100%) and WotC (100% 3rd edition).
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