D&D 5E Enough is Enough: WotC needs to add "domain spells" to *existing* sorcerer subclasses

[Phazonfish]

In 5e, all casting is spontaneous casting. The distinction is really Known vs Prepped.

In this case Spontaneous = Known, since you don't have to prep them. I realize it's an out of date term, but I figured people could put together my meaning from context; am I mistaken?

Known is a limitation on the character's versatility, prepped is a bookkeeping burden on the player.

I suppose that's a trade-off, in a sense.

That's the thing though: Since the Wizard gets more prepared spells than Sorcs get known spells, they could just treat their preparation limit like a spells known limit; they could prepare the same spells every day (and from a better list), and in doing so outdo the Sorcerer in terms of versatility while taking on zero bookkeeping. The concept you propose sounds like it should be the case, but it only becomes true if the Sorc gets more spells known.

 

[aco175]

lv 1 chomatic orc

The sorcerer Joseph and his technicolor orc.

 

[GlassJaw]

sorcerers do not need more spells known, they need more spell slots.

Having sorcery points on short rest would give real difference between sorcerers and wizards.

more raw power vs more utility.

Why not both?

 

[The Mirrorball Man]

Why not both?

Because you don't need a second Wizard class, you need to make the Sorcerer class distinct.

 

[NotAYakk]

I have been working on a bonus spells list:

Draconic Sorcerer
Bloodline Spells (Additional feature)
You gain the following additional spells known:

1st chromatic orb*
3rd dragon's breath*
5th fear, elemental weapon*
7th elemental bane*
9th dominate person

* Unless you get this spell from another source, the damage you choose must match your Dragon Ancestry Damage Type. If the spell does not usually permit that kind of damage, you can still do that kind of damage.

Storm Sorcerer
Tempestuous Magic (Enhancement)
You can fly 10’ as a bonus action even if you don’t cast as spell. This movement does not provoke if you do it immediately before or after casting a spell using a spell slot of 1st level or above.

Bloodline Spells (Additional feature)
You gain the following additional spells known:

1st Fog Cloud
3rd Gust of Wind
5th Call Lightning, Sleet Storm
7th Conjure minor elementals*
9th Conjure elemental**

*Unless you gain this spell from another source, you can summon only smoke mephits, steam mephits, ice mephits, or dust mephits with it.

**Unless you gain this spell from another source, you can summon only air elementals with it.

Wild Magic Sorcerer
Wild Magic Surge (Enhancement)
You or the DM can choose to roll the d20 to produce a wild magic surge.

Bloodline Spells (Additional feature)
You gain an additional 1st level random bonus spell known from the Sorcerer list. If you cast it, at the end of the next long rest you trade it for a different random spell of the same level. As you learn to cast sorcerer spells of higher level you gain additional random spells of each spell level up to 5.

If you roll a wild surge the first time you casting one of these spells after gaining it, at the end of the next long rest you instead gain a random bonus spell of that spell level from all spell lists not just the sorcerer list.

Shadow Sorcerer
Bloodline Spells (Additional feature)
You gain the following additional spells known:

1st: Disguise Self
3rd: Shadow Blade
5th: Gaseous Form
7th: Shadow of Moil
9th: Danse Macabre

Divine Soul Sorcerer
Bloodline Spells (Additional feature)
Pick a Cleric Domain’s Domain Spells. You can choose 1 of them per level as a bonus spell.

the only wonkey one is wild magic, because reasons.

1 spell/level. Plus an extra one if those spells are "weakened" for thematic reasons (storm and dragon).

 

[Savage Wombat]

I've been giving Sorcerers one bonus spell at level 1-5, and it seems to work fine - but it's a small group, and no one is playing a Wizard at the same time for comparison. I try to pick bonus spells for versatility, but when the theme is elemental it can be hard.

I also find that there's not enough core spells to fit a lot of themes - I would suggest those interested consider writing a few new ones if they can. I also steal spells from other lists - the Storm Sorcerer had St. Elmo's (Faerie) Fire and Call Lightning, for example.

 

[Salthorae]

the only wonkey one is wild magic, because reasons.

I do this for Wild Magic:

• 1st: chaos bolt, 3rd: mirror image, 5th: hypnotic pattern, 7th: confusion, 9th: maelstrom

chaos bolt, mirror image, and confusion because they all have some randomized element to them. typnotic pattern and maelstrom because stylistically they seem chaotic. If bonus spells went to 7th level spells, I'd definitely have Prismatic Spray on the list.

 

[Li Shenron]

The new UA is trying out the "domain" spells (2 specific free spells known of each level from 1st - 5th) for a sorcerer subclass. That's 10 more spells known to a class that many feel is sorely lacking in known spells.

My reaction to it is:

Yes! ...as long as you give it to the existing subclasses, such as the draconic and wild mage in the PHB, and all of the options in Xanathars. To just give it to a new sorcerer subclass, but not the existing ones, is to essentially admit that it is needed but to try to hold onto the principle of not changing existing classes at the expense of consistency and functionality.

A few months ago there was a UA with variant class features, some of which are pure extras. If they are going to do something like this, then they need to make a variant bonus feature for all sorcerers that gives them appropriate domain spells. The biggest word count will just be taken up by the need for there to be at least 5 lists for draconic bloodlines.

It just needs to be done. I get the desire to stick with the rules that have been out for years, but there needs to be an exception here.

I agree with the sentiment: "enough is enough".

They've done it before, and they started IIRC with the very first non-core Sorcerer archetype: Storm Sorcery. They gave it bonus known spells, only to withdraw them before publication with the reason that it would have diminished the value of the core Sorcerer archetypes who don't get bonus known spells.

Then they did it again with new Sorcerers archetypes in UA. Either they should stick with their "no bonus known spells for Sorcerers" principle for good and stop sneaking it into new UA articles, or they should admit the core Sorcerer has a problem and grant it bonus known spells in the form of a real errata corrige.

And yes I know that an errata corrige almost 6 years after publishing the game smells like a revision. But they've already done it one year ago by adding magic weapon properties to the Beastmaster's companion attacks so the dam is broken already.

 

[GlassJaw]

Because you don't need a second Wizard class, you need to make the Sorcerer class distinct.

The sorc needs both. And spell points.

Spell points is the single-biggest thing that would make the sorc instantly feel distinct.

 

[DEFCON 1]

Sorcerers don't need domain spells... DMs need to curate individual spell lists for their sorcerer players for each subclass. That way they can add spells that are thematically appropriate that are not currently on the sorcerer's spell list (including a few non-blaster support spells), and remove spells from the list that are off-spec.

It does little to no good to give a black dragon draconic sorcerer a handful of acid spells as per their "domain" while simultaneously keeping fireball on the spell list, because the draconic sorcerer player will still keep throwing those fireballs because its the better spell. If you want sorcerer theming you need to just re-write their individual spell list.