Enslaving the Undead

[Knowledge Sinkhole]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but if you are commanding an undead constantly to be your thrall, it might have to follow your instructions, but it doesn't have to like it, does it?

This is one reason that the plan I outlined originally called not just for the use of the Command Undead feat (which creates an effect identical to the Control Undead spell, which as you say doesn't specify anything about liking your instructions) but also the Command Undead spell; the spell is the undead equivalent of Charm Person, stating "If the subject is intelligent, it perceives your words and actions favorably (treat its attitude as friendly)".

Don't get me wrong- some ironclad wording of instructions is important, as you are, indeed, still dealing with beings of pure evil. In fact, that might be something worth pursuing as part of this process- might there be a way to engender a (semi)permanent shift in the creature's alignment? Something like a helm of opposite alignment, but that can work on the undead?

 

[paradox42]

On that last note, a fascinating thought: could a Sorcerer with the Undead Bloodline, which as pointed out by Steel_Wind can affect some Undead with Mind-Affecting effects, craft a Helm of Opposite Alignment and thereby have the Helm affect Undead?

 

[Knowledge Sinkhole]

On that last note, a fascinating thought: could a Sorcerer with the Undead Bloodline, which as pointed out by Steel_Wind can affect some Undead with Mind-Affecting effects, craft a Helm of Opposite Alignment and thereby have the Helm affect Undead?

I wonder if it wouldn't be enough for the item creator to have the Threnodic Spell metamagic feat.

That feat, incidentally, would open up another realm of possible options for dealing with unruly thralls. Reckless Infatuation would keep it near by in the event that it did break free. A Geas to make your thrall refrain from breaking free of your Command Undead feat would lead to a permanent thrall- however, it would require the ability to cast 8th level spells (when factoring in the metamagic feat) if you want to affect any thrall with more than 7 HD. Of course, if you could acquire or create a threnodic spell metamagic rod, it would be possible with only 6th level spells. Such rods do not exist in the RAW, unfortunately. EDIT: Of course, this wouldn't be a problem with the undead bloodline. That might be what cements it as the way to do this.

A cleverly worded Suggestion might do the trick- "Do not resist my control- existence is so much easier when you let me make all the decisions." Still iffy, of course, since it would depend on whether or not your DM decides that such a suggestion is "obviously harmful" and negates the spell. Still, a very good possibility nonetheless.

 

[gamerprinter]

I wonder if it wouldn't be enough for the item creator to have the Threnodic Spell metamagic feat.

If you take one level as Sorcerer with Undead Bloodline, the Bloodline Arcana: some undead are susceptable to your mind-affecting spells. Corporeal undead that were once humanoids are treated as humanoids for the purposes of determining which spells affect them.

So by taking a single level in Sorcerer, you don't need to take (nor spend the extra slots) for Threnodic Spell, as the Bloodline Arcana provides the same benefit.

 

[Viktyr Gehrig]

Very interesting stuff- thanks for the ideas! I've honestly never considered making a multiclass wizard/sorcerer. It would set your spell progression back by a level- but as you say, it might be worth it for the bloodline power. Wizard/sorcerer levels don't stack for determining caster level, do they?

If you're playing in a 3.P environment, you can take Practiced Spellcaster (Sorcerer) to get a lot more out of that one lost caster level and still have five levels leftover for a suitably necromantic PrC.