Entangle - A Little Too Strong For A 1st Level Spell?

[Nifft]

The druid would need a wisdom of 28 for the DC to hit 20. So yeah, after that the spell gets better.

Heighten also works.

Cheers, -- N

 

[irdeggman]

This would go a long way towards balancing the spell.....and making it easier to remember in play!

No arguement here.

 

[IcyCool]

Heighten also works.

Cheers, -- N

Very true. And with this change, the druid might actually have a reason to pick up that feat, rather than something useful.

 

[Nebulous]

What the spell needs, and the spell system in general, is to be scalable. Relatively weak if cast by a 1st level druid , but at higher level he can expand the range, the diameter, the strength of the vegetation, etc. The DC's will increase accordingly.

 

[irdeggman]

What the spell needs, and the spell system in general, is to be scalable. Relatively weak if cast by a 1st level druid , but at higher level he can expand the range, the diameter, the strength of the vegetation, etc. The DC's will increase accordingly.

More like the psionics system, but yes that is major change in the spell system that would fix this issue, but probably would cause an entirely different set of disagreements.

 

[Deset Gled]

Anywhere with plenty of plants. So not so helpful in, say, a dungeon. And it's got this neat little thing built into it:

Why are plenty of plants needed? Near as I can tell, a little petunia you pull from your pocket, a little algae in a puddle, or a small spot of moss would be enough for the spell to work.

 

[irdeggman]

Why are plenty of plants needed? Near as I can tell, a little petunia you pull from your pocket, a little algae in a puddle, or a small spot of moss would be enough for the spell to work.

Grasses, weeds, bushes, and even trees wrap, twist, and entwine about creatures in the area or those that enter the area, holding them fast and causing them to become entangled. The creature can break free and move half its normal speed by using a full-round action to make a DC 20 Strength check or a DC 20 Escape Artist check. A creature that succeeds on a Reflex save is not entangled but can still move at only half speed through the area. Each round on your turn, the plants once again attempt to entangle all creatures that have avoided or escaped entanglement.

Note: The effects of the spell may be altered somewhat, based on the nature of the entangling plants.

Is algae or moss "grass, weeds, brushes or trees"?

How about a single flower?

At worst the single flower and algae and moss fall under "the effects of the spell may be altered. . . ."

I did previously state how ineffective the spell was in a silt environment - same would be true of a desert.

 

[Nebulous]

More like the psionics system, but yes that is major change in the spell system that would fix this issue, but probably would cause an entirely different set of disagreements.

Ah, yes, yes it would cause new disagreements. But hopefully solve more problems than it spawns.

 

[Nail]

Nerf it at low level, make it strong at high level. I like it!

For a moment I'm gonna pretend Nifft meant this, straight up.

Using a higher level slot (like.....9th?) to pull off a lower level effect, with the only change being a (slightly) higher saving throw? Sounds fine to me, even underpowered. Seriously.




I was also serious about simplifying the Str/Esc Artist check to make it easier to remember. I don't know how many times we had to look up the silly spell, especially after other casters started slinging Web, EBT, etc. They all have very different mechanics. Grrr......

 

[Nifft]

For a moment I'm gonna pretend Nifft meant this, straight up.

I did! I like it! Like, seriously.

The reasons it'll be higher DC at higher level are:
- Spell Focus (Transmutation). Druids benefit greatly from this.
- Higher Wisdom. I expect Druids to hit at least 30 Wisdom by level 20.
- Heighten Spell. When you absolutely, positively need an NPC to stop frikkin' moving for a while.

Cheers, -- N