Entangle - A Little Too Strong For A 1st Level Spell?

[Nail]

I did! I like it! Like, seriously.

Good! Seriously.

 

[RigaMortus2]

It's good, but not too powerful due to it being a very situational spell. It is not going to be very effective in dungeons, deserts, on the sea, and in urban areas. As another poster stated, in the hands of DM who can build an encounter based around it, it is more powerful.

It isn't difficult to get out of the Entangle, just annoying. If I were a PC that was Entangled and and had a hard time getting out, and I had enemies shooting arrows at me, I would drop prone and go on Total Defense until the spell wore out.

 

[Nail]

It's good, but not too powerful due to it being a very situational spell.

I know this reason is bandied about alot, but I just don't buy it. "The wrong situation" can happen to just about any spell.....and should not really be a factor in balancing it:

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Blue Moon Fireball
Evocation [Fire]
Level: Sor/Wiz 1
Components: V, S, M
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Long (400 ft. + 40 ft./level)
Area: 20-ft.-radius spread
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: Reflex half
Spell Resistance: Yes

A fireball spell is an explosion of flame that detonates with a low roar and deals 1d6 points of fire damage per caster level (maximum 10d6) to every creature within the area so long as there is a Blue Moon that night.
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Since the above spell is only usable in certain situations, is it balanced?

If I were a PC that was Entangled and and had a hard time getting out, and I had enemies shooting arrows at me, I would drop prone and go on Total Defense until the spell wore out.

Did we mention that the duration is 1 MINUTE per level? Is your proposal either realistic or desirable?

 

[RigaMortus2]

I know this reason is bandied about alot, but I just don't buy it. "The wrong situation" can happen to just about any spell.....and should not really be a factor in balancing it:

**********************
Blue Moon Fireball
Evocation [Fire]
Level: Sor/Wiz 1
Components: V, S, M
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Long (400 ft. + 40 ft./level)
Area: 20-ft.-radius spread
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: Reflex half
Spell Resistance: Yes

A fireball spell is an explosion of flame that detonates with a low roar and deals 1d6 points of fire damage per caster level (maximum 10d6) to every creature within the area so long as there is a Blue Moon that night.
**********************


Since the above spell is only usable in certain situations, is it balanced?

No, but it is not reasonable for other reasons. For one, it is a spell that deals damage, entangle is not. The area of effect is too large for a spell that deals damage for a 1st level spell IMHO. I think damage is a big factor in determining if a spell is too strong. That, and a spell that makes someone "helpless". So I don't want you to come back with a Blue Moon Hold Person.

If the area of effect was maybe a 10 radius, I would say it is not bad.
Actually, the range is a little out of wack too for a 1st level spell.

If Entangle had closer parameters to the spell you propose, I could maybe see your point.

If you had a Blue Moon Entangle, which did not require plants at all, just that a Blue Moon would be out, and it still had the other parameters (it still entangled people, if they failed the save they were immobile, they could make a check to break out, they had to keep making Ref saves every round they are in the area, the range/duration/area etc. was all the same) I would say that it is not broken or unbalanced or too powerful.

Did we mention that the duration is 1 MINUTE per level? Is your proposal either realistic or desirable?

Why wouldn't it be? If I am trapped inside an Entangled area, and people are pelting me with arrows, and I can't escape (or have reason to believe I won't be able to escape), then I'll drop prone and go on Total D until the spell effect ends or the situation changes in some way that would make it in my best interest to do something different. What is unrealistic or undesireable about buffing up my AC vs ranged attacks if I can not escape them???

 

[IcyCool]

Why wouldn't it be? If I am trapped inside an Entangled area, and people are pelting me with arrows, and I can't escape (or have reason to believe I won't be able to escape), then I'll drop prone and go on Total D until the spell effect ends or the situation changes in some way that would make it in my best interest to do something different. What is unrealistic or undesireable about buffing up my AC vs ranged attacks if I can not escape them???

Silly, everyone knows that the best way to defend yourself from an Entangle spell is to stand in the middle of it and scream "THIS SPELL IS BROKEN!" until the GM either stops targeting your PC with arrows, or changes the spell.

 

[Moon-Lancer]

The fact that it's a druid spell is one of the reasons I don't like it. Druids spells are supposed to be less powerful than a wizards, not more powerful. That's why druids get Wildshape, animal companions, better BAB, and all that good stuff.

Also, if it was only usable in the wood (with dense growth), it would fit that image well. But it works anywhere.

So it should should be a wizard spell? i dont follow? by NATURE its a druid spell. lol.

anway wizards get web. and even considering the that web is a second level spell, web is far stronger. Even on a save you must make strength check to escape.

 

[Lackhand]

or set the web on fire, eating the damage and becoming instantly free -- and the damage doesn't scale with level.

 

[werk]

Edit - I'd honestly like to see the DC for the Escape Artist and Strength checks be based off of the spell save DC rather than a flat number.

QFT.

Scalable difficulty should be the rule. Arbitrarily fixed difficulties are broken...too hard at easy levels, too easy at hard levels...they're just stupid, really.

 

[Olaf the Stout]

It isn't difficult to get out of the Entangle, just annoying. If I were a PC that was Entangled and and had a hard time getting out, and I had enemies shooting arrows at me, I would drop prone and go on Total Defense until the spell wore out.

How exactly would you drop prone when the spell immobilizes you on a failed save?

Olaf the Stout

 

[Nail]

....I would say that it is not broken or unbalanced or too powerful.

!!!

<laughs> You and I have a fundamental difference of opinion on this, I see. It's all good.