Enterprise: weekly discussion [prob spoilers too]

[JacktheRabbit]

The Prime Directive as origionally written was loosely based on the Us Neutrality Acts of the 1930's.

Those gave us WW2. Gee what a wonderful idea to carry into the future.

How many times have we seen the stupid directive broken? Just about any time anyone has felt like it.

YET!

The one time the Federation refused to break it was during the Klingon Civil War in STNG. This one time they refused and it was only through 10 seconds of clever Data action that kept the Klingon Empire being won by the side that would have immedialty sided with the Romulans in a war against the Federation.

The fictional Prime Directive is as dumb as the Neutrality Acts that they so closely resemble.

 

[Altalazar]

I respectfully disagree. The Prime Directive is based on situations such as what happened when the Old World met the New World in the 15th Century - and the disasters that followed.

Natives were forced to give up their religion for Christianity. Whole civiilzations and cultures were destroyed. It was even made worse by those with the best of intentions. Missionarys that just 'knew' their religion was superior, and so forced the natives to convert to it or die.

We see it now in interventions in the third world where missionaries still cause trouble. They introduce medicine that vastly improves mortality while also denying the natives contraception. And in any case, the culture was based on a society where many children die, and so you need to have large families. Soon, you have that getting out of control as more survive and prosper with the medicine, then there are too many and we have famine. So we need to send in more 'help' and pretty soon they are in a cycle of starvation and dependency, even as their society collapses because of the loss of continuity. And so the 'help' made them far far worse off than if they had been left alone and could more gradually assimilate into the modern world.

That is the sort of problem the Prime Directive is in place to avoid.

 

[JacktheRabbit]

I am merely quoting one of the creators of Star Trek. I really wish I still had the origional source of it handy.

BTW, the greatest damage inflicted was not missionaries or anything else intentional. It was the inadvertant spreading of infectious diseases that the New World had no defense against.

I respectfully disagree. The Prime Directive is based on situations such as what happened when the Old World met the New World in the 15th Century - and the disasters that followed.

Natives were forced to give up their religion for Christianity. Whole civiilzations and cultures were destroyed. It was even made worse by those with the best of intentions. Missionarys that just 'knew' their religion was superior, and so forced the natives to convert to it or die.

We see it now in interventions in the third world where missionaries still cause trouble. They introduce medicine that vastly improves mortality while also denying the natives contraception. And in any case, the culture was based on a society where many children die, and so you need to have large families. Soon, you have that getting out of control as more survive and prosper with the medicine, then there are too many and we have famine. So we need to send in more 'help' and pretty soon they are in a cycle of starvation and dependency, even as their society collapses because of the loss of continuity. And so the 'help' made them far far worse off than if they had been left alone and could more gradually assimilate into the modern world.

That is the sort of problem the Prime Directive is in place to avoid.

 

[Umbran]

The one time the Federation refused to break it was during the Klingon Civil War in STNG. This one time they refused and it was only through 10 seconds of clever Data action that kept the Klingon Empire being won by the side that would have immedialty sided with the Romulans in a war against the Federation.

Sorry, but this is incorrect. The Prime Directive only applies to pre-warp cultures. ST:TNG Klingons are certainly not pre-warp.

The Federation stayed out of the Klingon civil war for other reasons - IIRC, they were bound by treaty. The Klingons were not actually members of the Federation, and were supposed to be allowed to govern themselves. Until Data proved that the Romulans were interefering, any intervention by the Federation would have caused the Federation favorite (Gowron) to lose popular support. Interfering in that war would have been shooting themselves in the foot.

I am such a geek...

 

[Breakstone]

I must say, I am enjoying the show.

The whole "two species/one planet" thing was cool, and I liked the alien's surprise that Archer and T'Pol were not from the same planet.

It sort of reminded me of Neanderthals/Cro Magman.

 

[William Ronald]

I don't think the missionary comparison the Prime Directive is valid.

In the episode where Q is made human, Q sarcastically states that maybe he should become a missionary. Data replied that would be a noble profession. It seems unlikely that Data, who follows the Prime Directive, would think highly of missionaries if they violated the prime directive.

Also, I suspect that the people in the Third World are generally grateful for what access they have to modern medicine. A large part of the population growth problem is due not only to lack of contraceptives, but economic and cultural issues. (In relatively poor countries, having many children helps to ensure that someone will be around to care for you in your old age. In contrast, people in wealthier societies tend to have less children.)

While I missed the episode, I have mixed feelings about the Prime Directive. Should cultural viewpoints other than my own be treated with respect. Generally, yes. (Some view points I refuse to respect. Namely ones that allow the abuse of the individual.) However, most societies will pursue their own interests when dealing with other cultures. I think the best we can hope for is that enlightened self interest prevails.

Unfortunately, the Prime Directive has become a rather shaky plot crutch. It is violated by the best officers in Star Fleet.

I personally prefer the Babylon 5 approach of helping when you can but being respectful of another's culture. Are there likely to be unexpected consequences? Yes, just like any other policy.

Also, here is a tough question. You are the leader of a planet where the Federation ignored either an atrocity or a disease and many people died. You are fully aware of this, and your civilization has just gained warp flight. What would you think of the United Federation of Planets? What would you say to one of their representatives? If the Federation needed help, would you give it to them?

 

[Ialdabode]

Thus far this episode is my personal favorite. I've loved the doctor since the second episode (especially considering Billingsly has had to improve all along since they're making the alien race up as they go). It's nice to see a doctor episode not delve into the, well, trite crap the Voyager doctor became.

As far as the Prime Directive goes, it has always been something of a fast and loose guideline in Trek lore. Kirk broke the damn thing on a weekly basis in TOS. But we're dealing with a time before they had structured rules. Archer has to figure that whatever he does will set a precedent for future captains to look to. Better to take the role of inactive neutrality and let later generations sort it out than to start major problems down the line. Well, that and Archer has to know T'Pol will bitch him out if he gave away the warp technology

For those that dislike Where My Heart Will Take Me, B&B have this advice for you: "Turn down the volume."

 

[Black Omega]

For those that dislike Where My Heart Will Take Me, B&B have this advice for you: "Turn down the volume."

Mute works even better and is highly recommended.

 

[Tom Cashel]

*clears throat*

It's been a loooong road
Gettin from there to here....

It's been a looong time
But my time is growin near!

*cough! sputter!*


I like that the Ferengi will be in an episode, yet remain "unidentified." They were pretty well "fleshed out" in DS9. The Grand Nagus was a pretty funny character.

 

[Malcor Sylverwood]

*clears throat*

It's been a loooong road

~desperately pushes the the mute button~

ARGH!!!