EnWorld- The Professional Society

[Belen]

Devil's Advocate Mode:

We do? I don't. Maybe you might. But to answer the question, I hope to be gaming with my children. And eventually their children.
If you had said another 40 or another 400 this would be accurate. Internet forums so not make up even a tenth of the number of participants in an activity worldwide.

You should list some of these things more specifically because I don't see anything compelling in your argument.
There are probably an equal number of dragon's foot and rpg.net members who would be aghast at learning the 3.x D&Ders were going to unite in a common cause.
I'll point out that half of the responses to this thread (so far) have been made by people who haven't even spent the $35 to become EnWorld Supporters. (Yes, myself included.) People are hard to convince to part with their money even in places they support.
Ad campaigns will not get people to play D&D. People join this hobby by meeting existing hobbiests, becoming intrigued as to how someone gets together with friends periodically to play a game, and joins said game after observing the behavior first hand.
Those same 1 in 4(0(0)) folks who don't come to EnWorld are the same people who would not buy or want to own a PDF.
We already have "share the love" threads, what does the society ad to such things? Your benefits seem nebulous from my point of view.
I need more.

I do not have all the answers. However, ads are not the only form of marketing: Sponsored events at gaming stores, schools, after school programs?

You're right in that I cannot tell you the benefits right now. It's an abstract concept so far. We'd need support from Morrus, Eric, Henry and crew in order to get serious about this.

I know the right people to contact in order to get something like this off the ground, but without the leaders of EnWorld, nothing much can happen.

As for the other sites like Dragonsfoots, this would benefit them as much as us. Just because the site is focused on d20 does not meant that the society will only be focused in that direction. Maybe at first, but that's only because too broad a focus to start would probably lead to failure, but I could be wrong.

 

[Zappo]

We have to ask ourselves a question. Where will our hobby be in 10-20 years?

"Rangers got the shaft"
"Psionics are broken"
"D&D 5e is a game for munchkin rollplayers!"
"World of Darkness 3.0 is a game for goth poseur drama queens!"
"Hologames are going to kill D&D"
"If the hobby doesn't change direction soon, it will eventually vanish!"
"Man, we've just got used to 5e D&D, and already we hear rumors about 6e. Zappo Entertainment Worldwide is ripping us off!"
"Valar Press is releasing the Book of Evil PCs! They must be stopped! Otherwise, the witch hunts from last century will return!"
"Is killing orc babies evil?"
"OD&D (1974) is the only true game. All other editions are just a poor imitation of the original. "
"Did you hear they are going to make a fifth D&D movie? The budget is 20 dollars and the director is a trained spider monkey"
"Alignments are a straightjacket and should be removed!"

 

[Umbran]

Ad campaigns will not get people to play D&D. People join this hobby by meeting existing hobbiests, becoming intrigued as to how someone gets together with friends periodically to play a game, and joins said game after observing the behavior first hand.

Yes, but "marketing" is not the same as "ad campaigns". If ad campaigns don't do the job, then you put your money elsewhere - like into a campaign to make sure that every high-school-sponsored gaming group has books and dice. Or into supporting smaller local gaming gatherings. Or into grants for FLGS that cannot otherwise afford extra floorspace in which to hold games...

The flaw in this concept is simple - the effective professional organizatiosn are very large, and charge notable fees. Folks enter these organizations becuase they give material support to their professions - in other words, it is an investment. They expect that their membership will actually help them earn more money, in the long run. And, I suspect the membership fee is something they can write off their taxes as a business expense.

These things have many people, and charge large fees. So they have a great deal of money. $1 million sounds like a lot of money on a personal level. But in terms of national campaigns, it is tiny little potatoes. And you're motivating people here not based upon profit, but upon altruism. That's going to be a darned hard sell.

In order to be effective, you need multiple millions of dollars, and folks aren't going to give you money until they think you can be effective. You are now in chicken-and-egg-land. You can't start getting money until you already have money.

 

[Chris Durham]

I love this idea. Everyone feels to a certain degree like the hobby has been hijacked by a corporate entity that cares about the bottom line more than the quality or continuance of gaming. People complain about it -- a lot. Now here's an idea that flies in the face of the percieved victimization of gaming. The OGL put power into the hands of the people and we like it. We realize that we can have an impact upon the face of roleplaying. WotC is doing what a company should do -- concerning itself with the business justification for its actions, making sure it stays afloat in what is really a fickle kind of hobby. Free market economy:in the end it is WE that they cater to. All the advertising in the world, all the marketing, all the school programs and whatnot just serves to make WE a larger entity. WE can either eat what is handed to us or WE can craft a voice for ourselves and have an impact on the business.

I'm down with it.

 

[S'mon]

You can take my $200 from my cold dead fingers...

 

[Greegan]

I can safely say that you would find people who would shell out $200/year for support. As a business professional, I pay $240/year to sign up for Chambers of Commerce, Business groups, etc. so as to get my name out there AND, mostly, to meet other people in my general field with which to do business....I say it's a GO...as long as I can participate in it!!!!

 

[EricNoah]

This is an interesting discussion. Not so much the specifics, but it really starts to get at the heart of what EN World's purpose is, and what it could be. (And I don't have the answers by a long shot -- I feel that one of EN World's primary missions is education -- educating the members of our hobby about the parts of the hobby they might not be aware of, but what else?)

 

[Umbran]

educating the members of our hobby about the parts of the hobby they might not be aware of, but what else?)

Well, in the sci-fi convention business, there's what they call "outreach" - reaching out to the audience, advertising and marketing and gathering feedback. Conventions have budgets for that sort of thing. They do e-mailings and snail-mailings. They have folks go out to other similar organizations to educate.

EN World is a forum to which people can come and do outreach. But EN World itself is passive. People have to come here. The site doesn't come to them. That requires money and/or volunteers, and proactive organizers.

 

[HellHound]

Publications: A free subscription to the EnWorld Journal or EN Publishing PDFs? RW mentioned that Elements of Magic-Revised sold 200. With a membership subscriber base, that number could be far higher. Yes, it may be folded into membership, yet by selling it and including it as a part of membership, such PDFs would sell that much more. Either such books drive new membership, or enough people have them that other want to check them out. It's a win-win scenario.

While I love the idea, it is important to note that, at this time, E.N.Publishing and E.N.World are different companies with different owners. That which makes money for E.N.World does NOT make money for E.N.Publishing, and as the co-owner of one and not the other, obviously I start looking for other advantages.

 

[Belen]

While I love the idea, it is important to note that, at this time, E.N.Publishing and E.N.World are different companies with different owners. That which makes money for E.N.World does NOT make money for E.N.Publishing, and as the co-owner of one and not the other, obviously I start looking for other advantages.

The main advantage is that a membership/ subscription will net you far more money than what you're doing now. Just say that part of the membership fees go towards the publications arm. (ie. This is what happens with our journal.)

Okay, if we charge just $75 (and we have 5000 members) for membership and $20 goes to publishing, then the publishing arm will gross $100k. I'll bet that none of EnWorld's products have been anywhere near that successful. On top of membership fees, you will be able to sell those products to non-members. As Monte said, PDFs last forever! This just goes up with membership.

For instance, 75 dollars gets you the PDFs while 100 gets you PDFs plus a paper subscription to EnWorld Player's journal.