Ephemeral Swarms -- CR 5 ?!?!

[Diirk]

Anyone else feel this is just a little whack? The swarm subtype has a few weaknesses, unfortunately most of those are heavily reinforced by the incorporeal subtype. ac 20 with immunity to all nonmagic weapons, 1/2 damage and 50% miss chance vs magical piercing and slashing or just 50% miss chance vs magical bludgeoning... can only use area magic spells, and even those have a 50% miss chance (unless they're force)... it has a 30 foot flight speed, and its auto hit attack is 1d6 str.

Ouch. Just ouch. The only real weakness is Death Ward, but the lowest level you can get that (short of buying scrolls) is 7th level....

I think the funniest thing, is a 12 HD skeleton would be CR 6, yet this is only 5 ...

PS. They're in monster manual 3

 

[Plane Sailing]

I guess they are anticipating wizards and sorcerers with lots of magic missile available?

 

[Diirk]

Single target spells don't work on swarms, altho I suppose if you had 200 1st level spells available you could maybe make a case for it to your GM...

10 minutes later
Sorceror with lots of scrolls: "And I cast my 197th magic missile killing ghost rats #981, #982, #983, #984 and #985"
GM: "The remaining 15 rats drain another " rolls dice " 3 str from you putting you to -1 str total and killing you."
Sorceror: "Dammmnn youuuuuuuuuuuu !"

 

[Plane Sailing]

Point taken!

 

[DevoutlyApathetic]

I find swarms in general to have been a bad idea. Nice concept, they're just harsh for most of the CRs they've been assigned.

Spider swarms, for example, are perhaps the most deadly CR 1 I can think of.

 

[shilsen]

Single target spells don't work on swarms, altho I suppose if you had 200 1st level spells available you could maybe make a case for it to your GM...

10 minutes later
Sorceror with lots of scrolls: "And I cast my 197th magic missile killing ghost rats #981, #982, #983, #984 and #985"
GM: "The remaining 15 rats drain another " rolls dice " 3 str from you putting you to -1 str total and killing you."
Sorceror: "Dammmnn youuuuuuuuuuuu !"

Just for the record, being drained to 0 in Str won't kill you, though it will make you unable to move and helpless. And I'm not sure but I think you can't actually be drained below 0 in any ability.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Just for the record, being drained to 0 in Str won't kill you...

It depends what's doing the draining.

If it's a Shadow, for example, you're dead. (Bet you wish you'd cast Ray of Enfeeblement on yourself, right? )

-Hyp.

 

[the Jester]

(Bet you wish you'd cast Ray of Enfeeblement on yourself, right? )

Curse you, Hyp. Why must you crush all my delusions of game logic??

 

[Zoatebix]

I'm feeling the whack. How many HD/HP does this thing have, just so we can get a clearer picture?

 

[Diirk]

12 HD, toughness 4 times for 90 hp total. The str drain specifically states it does kill you , just like a wraith does.

While swarms are exceedingly annoying, they tend to usually have low con, so the fort saves are usually pretty weak.. this makes them pretty vulnerable to Shadow Spray from some faerun book... 5' radius burst, dazes for 1 turn and does 1 str damage, 2nd level spell. Not so impressive, until you consider most swarms only have 1-2 str

Unfortunately, that doesn't work so well on undead.