Epic Destinies and Earth Giants

[Voss]

Erg, really? What is this game now? Some kind of form of Xena Warrior Princess where the characters are practically godlings/demigods (or at least on a level where they can wrestle with a titan and win).

Pretty much. D&D has always done classical myth better than anything else. Quests, face stabbing, stealing their stuff, affronting the gods... all that good stuff. Its always fallen down more often when you introduce the modern anachronisms in the current low in the fantasy genre.

What stupidly large numbers in 3E? Strength modifiers for huge creatures? Or am I missing anything.

Exactly those. Hit points accelerated off at an exponential rate, and between the strength score and BAB of large creatures, the d20 roll really didn't matter.


On the giant article- the addition of earth shock helps the titan immensely. An area stun effect puts gives it a definite sense of danger. Particularly since it can smack you in the face twice right afterwards.

Other thoughts: Primordial language, eh? Interesting.

 

[Jack99]

I bet I'm ninja'ed but it's been updated:

Earth Shock (standard; encounter)
Close burst 2; +18 vs. Fortitude; 2d10 + 6 damage, and the target is stunned until the end of the earth titan’s next turn. Miss: Half damage, and the target is not stunned.

Smells like earthstomp, not earth shock lol. I like it.

 

[Mirtek]

What's funny is that, comparing the Orc entry to the Hill Giant entry... there's no contest: orcs are far more interesting.

Orcs all have abilities that say "THIS IS AN ORC" and "It'S DIFFERENT from every other humanoid." It really drives home ORC ORC ORC.

Hill giant: "I hit you. I can throw a rock. Once, I can knock two people down!" Just as unsubtle as the orc, but it doesn't really say "Giant", to me.

It's not interesting. Not like the Orc entry, to say the least.

To be honest, the practical application of these "special" orc powers is just as boring. Execpt for the Eye of Gruumsh all orcs just hit you with their melee weapon and on some hits gain some hp back.

Hit
hit
hit
hit&heal
hit
hit
.
.
.
.
.

 

[Cadfan]

As the idea was described that was the most sensible solution almsot anyone would come to.

So I post a concern about 4e, Kamikaze Midget reassures me, Derren trolls the thread, a newb tells him to buzz off, Kamikaze Midget defends the troll, and Mirtek defends the troll as well by criticizing Kamikaze Midget for not including better rules text in a three sentence forum post.

I'd ask for Mod action, but I can't follow my own paragraph there to figure out who to report.

 

[Sojorn]

As for the epic destinies, I actually like that they didn't go for "bigger numbers". The fact that an archmage can use any daily power every 5 minutes isn't epic enough? Can you imagine the sheer awe on younger mages when they start practising their once daily meteor swarms and the headmaster calmly walks in and starts throwing meteor swarms EVERY 5 MINUTES?

The wildlife probably avoids that firing range.

 

[Daniel D. Fox]

Earth Shock (standard; encounter)
Close burst 2; +18 vs. Fortitude; 2d10 + 6 damage, and the target is stunned until the end of the earth titan’s next turn.
Miss: Half damage, and the target is not stunned.

 

[Trolls]

Mythological roots? You mean back to Norse and Greek mythology? Oh wait, that's all gone now with the destruction of the Great Wheel. Or perhaps something like the story of "Jack the Giant Killer"? Hmn, wait, I don't think Jack was forced to deal with elemental beings. No, whatever these things are, they aren't going back to any recognizable mythological roots so far as what I can see. They don't even go back to D&D's roots because they jettisoned all that came before.

The Norse giants, Jotun, were created by Ymir in Ginnungagap. Ymir and Ginnungagap map pretty closely to primordials and the Elemental Chaos.

 

[AllisterH]

And perhaps that is why I've never cared for epic level play in 3E and now it sounds like it might be worse in 4E. It's all too cheesy for my tastes - like Xena dancing on flag poles with Aries. I like the world to stay a dangerous place and high level not meaning comic book superhero. Guess I should be shopping around for a different game if I ever want to play something truly epic.

I'm actually curious as to what you look for in an epic game. On the one hand, you don't like the "wahoo" nature of the PCs, but on the other hand you want the giants et al to be monstrously stronger than the PCs...

Yet, when I think Epic, I think Heracles kicking the crap out of giants, Beowulf ripping off grendels arms etc...

At epic level, your fighter should be able to lay a smackdown on giants WITHOUT the use of magic. Just plain pure badass skill.

 

[Thornir Alekeg]

Using a daily more than once a day or as an encounter is indeed breaking the rules of the game. It just seems to be a bit more subtle than most were hoping for?

Where my disconnect came in was that they didn't say Epic PCs could break the rules of the game, but rather the rules of the universe. In my mind I don't equate the rules of the game with the rules of the universe, so it seemed a bit disappointing. As I stated in a later post though, I will wait to see if perhaps the "universe breaking" feel has ended up in some Epic spells, rather than Epic abilities.

 

[I'm A Banana]

So... fine, they're not flashy.

And that is problematic. Flashy is what we've waited 20 levels for, yo.

And perhaps that is why I've never cared for epic level play in 3E and now it sounds like it might be worse in 4E. It's all too cheesy for my tastes - like Xena dancing on flag poles with Aries. I like the world to stay a dangerous place and high level not meaning comic book superhero. Guess I should be shopping around for a different game if I ever want to play something truly epic.

Well, "truly epic" is a lot of that cheesiness. Achilles was immune to everything except one specific little speck of flesh, after all. The world was NOT a dangerous place for him.

The world isn't a dangerous place for 21+ D&D characters. The danger has to keep pace with their heroics, there are bigger dangers out there than "the world."

Like "Asmodeus."

If you prefer something a bit more prozaic, you could always "E6" the game at level 10.