Epic Destinies and Earth Giants

[pawsplay]

On the subject of archmages:

First, I'd like to register a complaint. Demi- means half. An archmage devotes his existence to mastering a... half-spell?

Anyway. Thoughts. I'm not sure I dig how this epic destiny is written up. It's not evident to me why an archmage would simply fade away, nor does sticking them in a tower sufficiently remove them from play to really be the end of them. Characters in D&D related books usually have a number of grand adventures left in them long after they've built their little sanctum. Further, it seems strange that someone who has devoted his studies to bending the universe to his will would ultimately merge with some kind of spell, losing his identity. It also seems to me that many archmages would seek to master spells with the aim of ultimately becoming a deity. Sure, there's undoubtedly a "become a deity" epic destiny, but it probably doesn't grant the benefits of the archmage path. I wonder if the book will suggest you can swap out the GAME OVER screen from the various destinies among each other.

 

[A'koss]

On the subject of archmages:

First, I'd like to register a complaint. Demi- means half. An archmage devotes his existence to mastering a... half-spell?

I believe they're trying to evoke comparisons to the word Demiurge, suggesting god-like power...

 

[malcolm_n]

Well, I guess that my interest ends at Paragon then. I would say Beowulf is Paragon in the D&D sense, not epic. While he could wrestle with Grendel, it was no walk in the park. And.. in the end, he was mortal. He did die.

I do think that epic characters can be impressive without having ridiculous ability scores. They are just deadlier and can survive more things. What I would have liked to have seen was a progression along the lines of what Gygax seemed to hint at in his old Dragon Magazine articles with his quasi-deities like Muryland. These characters have just a whiff of the divine in them, but they are not superheroes.

I guess we just have a different idea of what we would like to see for very high level play and that's fine. I'll just either avoid using the 4E (or 3E) rules for epic play and just come up with something else that works better for me.

Are the gods in 4E the children of the Primordials who turned on their parents? If they are really going for the classic mythic archetypes, that's a must. On the other hand, if the gods are just mortals who have stepped into portfolios or who have advanced to level 30 or beyond, that's a different sort of animal that isn't quite so mythic in my mind. It's more like Steven Erikson which I suppose could be fine, but it's not really like the classic Greek or Norse myths. Maybe they have done this... I'm not sure how we went down this road. Oh, right. Giants!

He died, yes, but we still remember him to this day. So, in a sense, he's immortal. Almost as though he'd achieved his epic destiny.

 

[Andor]

Well, I guess that my interest ends at Paragon then. I would say Beowulf is Paragon in the D&D sense, not epic. While he could wrestle with Grendel, it was no walk in the park. And.. in the end, he was mortal. He did die.

Grendal was a Troll who'd been butchering Vikings by job lots. Beowulf ripped his arm off with his bare hands and nailed it over the door. Then he stuck a broadsword between his teeth and swan across a Norwegian fjord while wearing a suit of chainmail. And that my friend, is not humanly possible. Beowulf was not Batman style "peak of possible human achievment", he was superhuman.

 

[Fallen Seraph]

I believe they're trying to evoke comparisons to the word Demiurge, suggesting god-like power...

Archmages create Prometheans!!! *coughs*

I think either that, or simply D&Dism with "demi" now thanks to things like the demilich, meaning "more powerful"

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hey all!

Firmly in the camp of those looking at the giant damage and thinking "What!?"

The Hill Giant is dealing about the same as a Level 3 Human Berserker (Brute 3) and less than a Level 7 Bugbear Headreaver (Brute 7).

By my reckoning it should be more akin to an average 22 points of damage* (4d6+8 maybe).

4.5 + 1/2 level x2 (Brute)

The Earth Titan deals almost the same (single attack) damage since its attacks are divided. It should be averaging around 50 damage* 25x2 (3d10+9 maybe)

4.5 + 1/2 Level x4 (Elite and Brute).

Also must admit that after seeing the amazing Orcs on Friday, that the giants were very uninspired in terms of powers as well. Kudos to Rechan for his new giantish powers.

 

[AntiStateQuixote]

New Hill Giant Encounter Power

Hurl Elemental Earth (standard; encounter)
Calling on the power of its Primordial master the hill giant empowers a stone with energy from the Elemental Chaos to pulverize its foe.
Ranged 8/16; +15 vs. AC; 2d6 + 5 thunder damage and ongoing 5 thunder damage (save ends)

 

[Rechan]

Hurl Elemental Earth (standard; encounter)
Calling on the power of its Primordial master the hill giant empowers a stone with energy from the Elemental Chaos to pulverize its foe.
Ranged 8/16; +15 vs. AC; 2d6 + 5 thunder damage and ongoing 5 thunder damage (save ends)

Hell yeah!

"Did... did that Titan just hadoken us?"

 

[NaturalZero]

Have we seen the stats for other giants yet? The hill giant's abilities become a bit more evocative if only earth giants have the ability to throw boulders now.

 

[Andor]

Is it a bad sign that the "Ain't it cool" preview article intended to show off how cool 4e is going to be ends up generating a long string of "But why didn't they do this" suggestions that make the article look like Solieri trying to impress Mozart with his creation?