SonOfLilith
First Post
Actually, I have retired a character yjay was too high lvl, because it just wasn't fun. It's way too hard for the DM to keep thoes kind of characters under control because they can do practically what ever they want.
Epic Handbook just a little bit unreasonable?
- Thread starter |]emonix
- Start date
from what i've seen and read....
The difficulty dm's encounter in running high-level games derives mostly fom their (mis)conception of what such a game would entail. If you think a good game automatically implies long road trips, linear dungeon crawls, and threats from small, low-level armies, then you will not have a good game; as monte cook noted, designing a competent highlevel adv entails not only taking scry, teleports, and risky instant-death spells into account, but making them neccessary.
To be a little less forgiving, i find it unfortunate that some dms would deny both themselves and their players this challenge, because they have an often cliche'd script in their head that anyone could have paid to see in Lotr. Selfish dms....
The difficulty dm's encounter in running high-level games derives mostly fom their (mis)conception of what such a game would entail. If you think a good game automatically implies long road trips, linear dungeon crawls, and threats from small, low-level armies, then you will not have a good game; as monte cook noted, designing a competent highlevel adv entails not only taking scry, teleports, and risky instant-death spells into account, but making them neccessary.
To be a little less forgiving, i find it unfortunate that some dms would deny both themselves and their players this challenge, because they have an often cliche'd script in their head that anyone could have paid to see in Lotr. Selfish dms....
Larry Fitz
First Post
Higher level characters should have their eyes on larger issues. It is incumbent on a DM to have the scope of play change as the power level changes. The deeds of 20th level and higher characters should have more global ramifications than those of 12th level characters. Gods should consider those characters as either Cohorts or foils for their Cohorts. When Ruegel Dunbeard, 20th level Paladin of the God of Truth and Justice sets out for the Dungeon of Gazbarak-Dur, The God of Truth and Justice should insinuate what he wants into Ruegel's plans, that is Epic level play. Characters of such power get noticed by creatures beyond this existence and also any other characters of that level should start paying more attention to them. If they establish a base of operations, it should become a congregating place for lesser people who are of a similar ilk (not necessarily followers, but people who wish to live under the relative safety the hero's presence would provide, or act as carrion on the pickings the villain leaves behind. In short the scope of play must change as the characters approach "Epic" levels. While I used 20th level as an example, "Epic" is really a relative term. Dm's should establish what is "Epic" in their own world. In something like FR, 20th is not so unique, but their are worlds in which 15th is considered ridiculously high. The point is that the PC's as they go higher (particularly in games where the DM is loathe to put them in "final death" situations) become the movers and shakers in their region of the campaign world. If you want them to just continue to hack n' slash, or if that's what they want to do, then make the leading edge of NPC characters in the 30's or even 40's.
"It's not just that our inventions make things easier or take less time, I really do love the wonderful noises they make!" -Jebediah Jaspers, High Priest of Argon, God of Civilization and Invention
There is a world of difference between 'epic' and 'munchkin'. 'Munchkin' is effectively a character so min/maxed that it has very little no roleplaying potential, defeats enemies of 'equivalent' power level (EL/CR) trivially and has sacrificed character concept and personality for power and abilities.
'Epic' needn't be any of the above. There can be a lot of roleplay and interesting action between pantheons and the like. I for one, am looking for to U_K's God Handbook (cheap advert, I know) because it extends the scope of roleplaying, rather than reducing it. And what the PHB curiously lacks is truly 'epic' feels: it just seems that power seems to be better at blasting things.
Consider the difference between launching a meteor at people (high-level) and raising or destroying continents (pretty damn epic). Yet there can still be RP in this: cosmic wars, divine intrigue, apocalypses...the usual.
'Epic' needn't be any of the above. There can be a lot of roleplay and interesting action between pantheons and the like. I for one, am looking for to U_K's God Handbook (cheap advert, I know) because it extends the scope of roleplaying, rather than reducing it. And what the PHB curiously lacks is truly 'epic' feels: it just seems that power seems to be better at blasting things.
Consider the difference between launching a meteor at people (high-level) and raising or destroying continents (pretty damn epic). Yet there can still be RP in this: cosmic wars, divine intrigue, apocalypses...the usual.
Imperialus
Explorer
meh, I want high powered I'll play Hackmaster. What other game has rules for sword caddies? "You know sir, I think you might want to use your +4 sunblade today, I'm still trying to get the rust spots out of your +6 holy avenger. I told you you shouldn't have tried throwing it at the rust monster."
i'm really looking forward to the ELH. I've made quite a few characters up for 3e, and even at 12th level it seems like I can't get all the abilities/spells/combos I need to round out the character's concept. I think the idea of starting an adventure at 20th level and playing for about 10 levels after that is very cool. Of course, with all the new feats and stuff in the ELH, I probably still won't be able to make a character with all the cool stuff I'll want him to have.
Avatar of the North
First Post
And how many times does Goku die in said series? Thats what i thought more than enough. He's not even the one to finish off cell and he is the main character
Same problem happens in D&D with how cheap Raise dead, Resurrection, and True Res are.
Geron Raveneye
Explorer
Immortals, anyone?
I still remember my first D&D character, and elf, who made it beyond 36th level and started his quest to become an Immortal in the sphere of Energy...that´s the kind of flair I hope the ELH will recreate. Of course it wil change the scope of the game, but that was what D&D did with the Master and Immortal Set.
I still remember my first D&D character, and elf, who made it beyond 36th level and started his quest to become an Immortal in the sphere of Energy...that´s the kind of flair I hope the ELH will recreate. Of course it wil change the scope of the game, but that was what D&D did with the Master and Immortal Set.
