[Epic] Improved spell capacity and the high lvl bard!

[Piratecat]

I'm deferring to the experts on this one. I know I'm missing something obvious.

Let's say Devis has hit 21st lvl. He's a stylin' kind of guy, but he's been impressed by Mialee, so he really wants to be able to learn 7th-9th lvl spells as he continues to advance in an epic progression.

Now, the right feat is Improved Spell Capacity (p. 59), especially as we're told on p. 9 (under "other options") that this will let the epic bard advance to 9th lvl spells and beyond.

But where the heck is his spell slot advancement from 7th to 9th lvl spells detailed? Should I just extrapolate from the PHB? Or does taking this feat give him one 7th lvl spell - and taking it a second time would give him one 8th lvl spell, etc.? That seems quite underpowered.

Thanks - any help you can offer would be great!

 

[kreynolds]

Should I just extrapolate from the PHB? Or does taking this feat give him one 7th lvl spell - and taking it a second time would give him one 8th lvl spell, etc.?

AFAIK, he just gets one extra level of spellcasting by taking the feat once, just like every other class that wishes to extend their spellcasting capabilities beyond their maximum. It just so happens that the bard's maximum isn't very impressive.

 

[Olgar Shiverstone]

Or does taking this feat give him one 7th lvl spell - and taking it a second time would give him one 8th lvl spell, etc.? That seems quite underpowered.

Ding-ding!

Give the three-pawed feline a kitty treat.

One feat per spell is pretty useless for bards, especially since you can only fill them with metamagicked spells. It's occasionally worth it if you need a 12th-level wizard spell to throw out some severe smack, but with the bard's spell list ...

 

[Piratecat]

Wow - thanks, guys. Looks like I'm house-ruling this one by adding a 7th lvl spell list and giving a free spell progression of 1 7th lvl spell (just as if you were extending the non-epic table.) It's not like bards are especially powerful, and my game will never get above 23rd pr 24th lvl, so no worries about setting a bad precedent.

Thank you!

 

[Hackenslash]

The 3.5 Bard spell list is much better....

Hello P.Cat,

Firstly, I would start using the 3.5 Bard spell list ASAP, as thats alot better. Secondly, I would extrapulate from the PHB for the 7th,8th and 9th level slots accordingly, as a 21st level character he/she will probably need the extra power anyway if he/she is to survive the typical CR's a DM will throw at them for those sort of levels. Thirdly, I would say 1 Feat for all the extra spell levels, as they will be limited as to the type of spells anyway. eg. Ench/Charm, Illusion, Divination, Summoning etc...I mean we are talking Epic Levels here, so lets get busy with some Epic Abilities too....Just my 2 cents...Cheers !!!

 

[the Jester]

Rather than just extending the progression, you might consider letting the character in question research new spells- but I guess there isn't usually that much downtime in your game these days, is there? Are you still using training times?

..my game will never get above 23rd pr 24th lvl...

I so hope you keep it going as long as it stays fun, and it stays fun forever! My campaign is just edging towards epic level pcs right now (1 character is 20th, another is 19th, etc)- I'm excited to see how it works out. Keep us posted on your bard solution, i.e. how well it works and whether it seems to create any balance issues.

 

[cerberus2112]

Don't forget the bonus spells!

It is purposely only one spell for each new spell level, because you get so many bonus spells for high ability scores in Epic levels. Figure the bard will have at least an 18 Cha, with an item to enhance it by +6 to 24. This gives him at least one bonus spell of seventh level, and for a 21st level character that is a very modest assumption for his ability score. When you hcek out the bonus spells for high abilities scores in the ELH, you'll see why characters learning new levels of spells only get one slot for the feat.

 

[sithramir]

Hey PirateCat do you have a write up of your bards (Nolins?) PrC? I like the idea of a PrC that adds some spells to someones list for a ranger/bard, etc.

I dislike the ones where they get their own spells and spell progression because you start back and need like 6 more lvls to get spells useful for your level. Adding one or two spells to a normal progressed list is something I like for my campaign.

How does it work in yours? Balanced? I bet Nolin's a lot more powerful comparitively now with it. I think flame strikes are a bit much but just wondering how its going.

 

[Morrow]

I have to go with cerberus2112 on this one. The player isn't getting as much bang for her epic feat slot as she might, but I don't think that's any reason to change the feat. If Devis wants to take Improved Spell Capacity then he gets to cast one spell of the next higher level (in this case 7th) plus any bonus spells he qualifies for, just like anyone else. Doing it any other way will lead to trouble, even in the short run. What are you going to say when Jozan and Mialee decide they want to take Improved Spell Capacity also?

Morrow

 

[Crothian]

THe bard would get bonus spells if his Cha was high enough, so it might not only be one slot