Epic Level! Fighter? Yeah right... Help!
- Thread starter Jeremy
- Start date
If you want to go in a different direction than the "swish, yer dead" mega-damage-dealing fighter, try a Duellist (T&B).
Nonepic, I can get an AC -- all with off-the-shelf items, the majority of it purely core rules -- of 80-some-odd.
With epic ... well, my books aren't to hand ATM, but I bet I could manage to come close to, if not OVER, AC 100.
Sure, sure, you may not deal bucketsful of damage. But nothing much will ever HIT you, either. "If you have to ask, the answer is NO." Heh.
The trick is, Duellist (10), and Expertise. Suck -5 to hit, gain +5 to AC ... which triggers a +10 dodge bonus form the Duellist class (7th level ability, gain dodge bonus equal to Duellist class levels when fighting defensively).
Add in Twin Sword style, Dodge, make the off-weapon a +5 Defending weapon and suck it for max AC; every AC-boosting type you can get (Amulet of Natural Armor, check; Bracers of Defense (+8), check; Gloves of Dexterity, check; HEadband of Intellect, check).
High Dexterity and High Intelligence are the rule (Duellists get their INT mod added to their DEX mod for AC purposes, if they are unarmored -- hence the Bracers). Book/Tome 'em both, prior to items you should be able (with a 17 and a 16 to start) to manage 19's from level advancement to 20, then +5 for the books for 24's. Add in +12 from items, and you have 36's. That's a +13 modifier for each ... +13 Initiative (aside form feats and such), and +26 AC.
26 for attributes, 15 for defensive fighting, 2 for Twin Sword, 5 for the defending weapon, 8 (at least) for the bracers, 5 from the Amulet, 1 from Dodge ... we're already at a +62 AC modifier, for an AC of 72.
And that's just off the top of my head; even epic characters and monsters would actually ave to WORK to hit an AC of 70+ ...
Get yourself hasted (+4 more AC and more movement/attacks), and milk every other AC bonus item you can find (or bribee your GM into approving, in the case of custom items).
Top it all off with a Cloak of Major Displacement, so even in the rare event a hit DOES connect, there's a 50% chance it DOESN'T, after all. Heh!
If you can manage it, Fighter (10) / Duellist (10) ... then levels of Epic Duellist, -or- levels of Rogue. I suggest the Epic Duellist, as it should manage to increase both AC (fighting defensively), and damage (Precise Strike, another 1d6 every 3 to 5 levels), at least against stuff vulnerable to crits.
Nonepic, I can get an AC -- all with off-the-shelf items, the majority of it purely core rules -- of 80-some-odd.
With epic ... well, my books aren't to hand ATM, but I bet I could manage to come close to, if not OVER, AC 100.
Sure, sure, you may not deal bucketsful of damage. But nothing much will ever HIT you, either. "If you have to ask, the answer is NO." Heh.
The trick is, Duellist (10), and Expertise. Suck -5 to hit, gain +5 to AC ... which triggers a +10 dodge bonus form the Duellist class (7th level ability, gain dodge bonus equal to Duellist class levels when fighting defensively).
Add in Twin Sword style, Dodge, make the off-weapon a +5 Defending weapon and suck it for max AC; every AC-boosting type you can get (Amulet of Natural Armor, check; Bracers of Defense (+8), check; Gloves of Dexterity, check; HEadband of Intellect, check).
High Dexterity and High Intelligence are the rule (Duellists get their INT mod added to their DEX mod for AC purposes, if they are unarmored -- hence the Bracers). Book/Tome 'em both, prior to items you should be able (with a 17 and a 16 to start) to manage 19's from level advancement to 20, then +5 for the books for 24's. Add in +12 from items, and you have 36's. That's a +13 modifier for each ... +13 Initiative (aside form feats and such), and +26 AC.
26 for attributes, 15 for defensive fighting, 2 for Twin Sword, 5 for the defending weapon, 8 (at least) for the bracers, 5 from the Amulet, 1 from Dodge ... we're already at a +62 AC modifier, for an AC of 72.
And that's just off the top of my head; even epic characters and monsters would actually ave to WORK to hit an AC of 70+ ...
Get yourself hasted (+4 more AC and more movement/attacks), and milk every other AC bonus item you can find (or bribee your GM into approving, in the case of custom items).
Top it all off with a Cloak of Major Displacement, so even in the rare event a hit DOES connect, there's a 50% chance it DOESN'T, after all. Heh!
If you can manage it, Fighter (10) / Duellist (10) ... then levels of Epic Duellist, -or- levels of Rogue. I suggest the Epic Duellist, as it should manage to increase both AC (fighting defensively), and damage (Precise Strike, another 1d6 every 3 to 5 levels), at least against stuff vulnerable to crits.
Jeremy
Explorer
Super AC characters are fun, I've got one in the campaign I'm running, but I already finalized the character and submitted him. 
Thanks everyone for you help. Here's what he ended up looking like.
((FYI, the DM houseruled the psychic warrior in a couple of places))
Celthin of Duskhollow, Human Psychic Warrior 20, Planar Champion 5
HD 20d8+5d10+125
Spd 60
Init: +5 (Dex)
AC 54 (+15 armor, +8 animated shield, +3 dex, +5 natural, +5 deflection, +5 insight, +3 luck)
ATK: +52 melee (+23 base, +13 str, +3 luck, +5 competence, +7 feats)
DMG: flamberge 2d6+23 +1d6 screaming +2d6 holy (13 str, +1 enhancement, +2 impact, +7 feats)
SA: favored plane: The Abyss +2, Nine Hells of Baator +1; see invisibility at will (and see ethereal), attack ethreal, planar survival, psionics
SV: Fort +24, Ref +18, Will +19
Str 37, Dex 20, Con 20, Int 10, Wis 10, Cha 10
Skills: TBD
Feats: Way of the Lion, Power Attack, Weapon Focus: Flamberge, Two-Handed Power Strike, Psionic Weapon, Deep Impact, Weapon Specialization: Flamberge, Frenzied Attack, Improved Critical: Flamberge, Akodo's Technique, Improved Weapon Focus, Expanded Critical, The Final Lesson, Power Critical, Cleave, Bonded Weapon: Flamberge, Great Critical, Epic Weapon Focus: Flamberge, Epic Weapon Specialization: Flamberge
Items:
belt of giant strength +6
articulated dragonscale armor +5 of heavy fortification
gauntlet of rusting grasp
amulet of natural armor +5
helm of alacrity +5
animated dragonscale shield +5
manual of gainful excercise +5
psychoactive skin of the hero
3 dull grey ioun stones
pale green prism ioun stone +5 (painted dull grey)
3x5 carpet of flying
arm of nyr
mantle of warding
screaming, keen, holy flamberge +1 mindfeeder/bodyfeeder, of impact
ring of epic psionics V
armband of health +6
ring of fire immunity
vest of resistence +5
boots of swiftness
portable hole
0- catfall, float, detect psionics, burst, lesser metaphysical body
1- chrysalis, call weaponry, feel light, ectogoo, bite of the wolf
2- animal affinity, expansion, reach
3- claws of the vampire, displacement, improved biofeedback, prowess, psychokinetic blast
4- inertial barrier, polymorph self, dimension door, telekinesis, dissolving touch
5- dimension strike, graft weapon, energy barrier, adamant grasp, ectoplasmic armor
6- ablating, greater metaphysical weapon, improved psychofeedback, shield of prudence
Constant Spell Effects: mind blank, freedom of movement, energy immunity: fire
Possible Pre-Battle Buffs: ablating, greater metaphysical weapon, improved psychofeedback, graft weapon, inertial barrier, claws of the vampire, displacement, improved biofeedback, animal affinity (str/con), chrysalis, expansion, reach, haste (from boots)
1x get out of jail free card vs negate psionics, +5 enhancement bonus to weapon, +1 to hit and ability to manifest claws of vampire on weapon, DR 10/+5, regen damage inflicted, 50% miss chance, first 26 points of damage that get through DR are subdual, +1d4+1 str/con, DR 5/-, +5 str weapon damage to 2d8, reach, haste
Could have him looking something like--
HD 20d8+5d10+175
AC 58 +displaced
ATK +62
DMG 2d8+3d6+49 (when taking a full attack action with two handed power strike)
DR 10/+5, DR 5/--, 26/Subdual
SA: favored plane: The Abyss +2, Nine Hells of Baator +1; see invisibility at will (and see ethereal), attack ethreal, planar survival, psionics
SQ: immune to mind affecting, divinations, slow, paralysis, entangle, fire, sneak attacks, critical hits, spell turning (6 levels)
--if he gets enough time to prepare.
Sound good?
Thanks everyone for you help. Here's what he ended up looking like.((FYI, the DM houseruled the psychic warrior in a couple of places))
Celthin of Duskhollow, Human Psychic Warrior 20, Planar Champion 5
HD 20d8+5d10+125
Spd 60
Init: +5 (Dex)
AC 54 (+15 armor, +8 animated shield, +3 dex, +5 natural, +5 deflection, +5 insight, +3 luck)
ATK: +52 melee (+23 base, +13 str, +3 luck, +5 competence, +7 feats)
DMG: flamberge 2d6+23 +1d6 screaming +2d6 holy (13 str, +1 enhancement, +2 impact, +7 feats)
SA: favored plane: The Abyss +2, Nine Hells of Baator +1; see invisibility at will (and see ethereal), attack ethreal, planar survival, psionics
SV: Fort +24, Ref +18, Will +19
Str 37, Dex 20, Con 20, Int 10, Wis 10, Cha 10
Skills: TBD
Feats: Way of the Lion, Power Attack, Weapon Focus: Flamberge, Two-Handed Power Strike, Psionic Weapon, Deep Impact, Weapon Specialization: Flamberge, Frenzied Attack, Improved Critical: Flamberge, Akodo's Technique, Improved Weapon Focus, Expanded Critical, The Final Lesson, Power Critical, Cleave, Bonded Weapon: Flamberge, Great Critical, Epic Weapon Focus: Flamberge, Epic Weapon Specialization: Flamberge
Items:
belt of giant strength +6
articulated dragonscale armor +5 of heavy fortification
gauntlet of rusting grasp
amulet of natural armor +5
helm of alacrity +5
animated dragonscale shield +5
manual of gainful excercise +5
psychoactive skin of the hero
3 dull grey ioun stones
pale green prism ioun stone +5 (painted dull grey)
3x5 carpet of flying
arm of nyr
mantle of warding
screaming, keen, holy flamberge +1 mindfeeder/bodyfeeder, of impact
ring of epic psionics V
armband of health +6
ring of fire immunity
vest of resistence +5
boots of swiftness
portable hole
0- catfall, float, detect psionics, burst, lesser metaphysical body
1- chrysalis, call weaponry, feel light, ectogoo, bite of the wolf
2- animal affinity, expansion, reach
3- claws of the vampire, displacement, improved biofeedback, prowess, psychokinetic blast
4- inertial barrier, polymorph self, dimension door, telekinesis, dissolving touch
5- dimension strike, graft weapon, energy barrier, adamant grasp, ectoplasmic armor
6- ablating, greater metaphysical weapon, improved psychofeedback, shield of prudence
Constant Spell Effects: mind blank, freedom of movement, energy immunity: fire
Possible Pre-Battle Buffs: ablating, greater metaphysical weapon, improved psychofeedback, graft weapon, inertial barrier, claws of the vampire, displacement, improved biofeedback, animal affinity (str/con), chrysalis, expansion, reach, haste (from boots)
1x get out of jail free card vs negate psionics, +5 enhancement bonus to weapon, +1 to hit and ability to manifest claws of vampire on weapon, DR 10/+5, regen damage inflicted, 50% miss chance, first 26 points of damage that get through DR are subdual, +1d4+1 str/con, DR 5/-, +5 str weapon damage to 2d8, reach, haste
Could have him looking something like--
HD 20d8+5d10+175
AC 58 +displaced
ATK +62
DMG 2d8+3d6+49 (when taking a full attack action with two handed power strike)
DR 10/+5, DR 5/--, 26/Subdual
SA: favored plane: The Abyss +2, Nine Hells of Baator +1; see invisibility at will (and see ethereal), attack ethreal, planar survival, psionics
SQ: immune to mind affecting, divinations, slow, paralysis, entangle, fire, sneak attacks, critical hits, spell turning (6 levels)
--if he gets enough time to prepare.
Sound good?
Kae'Yoss
First Post
I wonder why everyone thinks the casters outdamage fighters on high levels. I have experienced quite the contrary. Though I have to admit the character's a little caster himself: he's a bladesinger.
Our party-wizard (an evocer, no less, with tons of damage-dealing spells) almost hates me, since I can dish out much more than he can, even when he's hasted. Sure, he can deal that to a great number of enemies at once, but we usually have few, but powerful enemies (and the other ones usually won't even give XP anymore), and with save-or-die, the druid outshadows us both, but with much power attack, several attacks, and good prospects of dealing crits (and a nice potential for them), there are rounds I top 300 points of damage.)
The energy blast enchantments from ELH are a nice way to add damage potential (sonic blast, for example), or even the alighnment power weapons (though they depend on you having enemies of a certain alignment).
Our party-wizard (an evocer, no less, with tons of damage-dealing spells) almost hates me, since I can dish out much more than he can, even when he's hasted. Sure, he can deal that to a great number of enemies at once, but we usually have few, but powerful enemies (and the other ones usually won't even give XP anymore), and with save-or-die, the druid outshadows us both, but with much power attack, several attacks, and good prospects of dealing crits (and a nice potential for them), there are rounds I top 300 points of damage.)
The energy blast enchantments from ELH are a nice way to add damage potential (sonic blast, for example), or even the alighnment power weapons (though they depend on you having enemies of a certain alignment).
To be honest my vote would go for the longsword and shield paladin builds. Pump up the charisma and you have a super high AC dual wielding warrior with very nice saves. If you keep to enough PRCs that add to lay on hands you have some nice built in healing.
Basically things focus around raising charisma and using divine might and divine shield. With TWF and improved TWF and greater TWF or whatever you can get some nice damage with a shield while still getting a good 10+ AC. Lesse large +5 shield is 7, divine shield with a good charisma(main stat for this build) is another 8+ so you are looking at a +15AC weapon. Also improved shield bash or whatever lets you push people around nicely.
One of the main weaknesses of a fighter type is low will saves. With this build that isnt a problem. So less worry about your 25th level death machine being rendered useless to a dominate person or whatever. I have never really thought of this as a defensive build. It's a TWF without the weaknesses of a TWF.
Basically things focus around raising charisma and using divine might and divine shield. With TWF and improved TWF and greater TWF or whatever you can get some nice damage with a shield while still getting a good 10+ AC. Lesse large +5 shield is 7, divine shield with a good charisma(main stat for this build) is another 8+ so you are looking at a +15AC weapon. Also improved shield bash or whatever lets you push people around nicely.
One of the main weaknesses of a fighter type is low will saves. With this build that isnt a problem. So less worry about your 25th level death machine being rendered useless to a dominate person or whatever. I have never really thought of this as a defensive build. It's a TWF without the weaknesses of a TWF.
Jeremy
Explorer
Check out the cowl of warding from magic of faerun. It grants the user constant mind blank, freedom of movement, and 6 levels of spell turning (per day? per round? not sure...).
Mind blank is a great spell for people with low will saves.
And paladin charisma builds are great for using divine feats. You can even do it with a cleric just as well if not better. You just need to have a 13 wisdom and a periapt +6 so you can cast all your spells while you are pumping your wisdom. Then you can divine power/righteous might/multiple empower eagles splendor/smite/spikes/divine favor into the hundreds of points of damage.
But I really didn't want to play another divine feat chargadin. Be it shield charge or spirited charge, that build is the very first smackdown I've ever read and is a little tired.
Mind blank is a great spell for people with low will saves.
And paladin charisma builds are great for using divine feats. You can even do it with a cleric just as well if not better. You just need to have a 13 wisdom and a periapt +6 so you can cast all your spells while you are pumping your wisdom. Then you can divine power/righteous might/multiple empower eagles splendor/smite/spikes/divine favor into the hundreds of points of damage.
But I really didn't want to play another divine feat chargadin.
Be it shield charge or spirited charge, that build is the very first smackdown I've ever read and is a little tired.
Jeremy
Explorer
LOL
It'd have to be subdual damage, and you'd a lot of stat buffing items and/or spells but that would be pretty fun to watch. Can't get any multipliers on it (ride by unarmed attack I guess would work if you wanted to spirited charge) but the best multiplier in this instance is multiple hits. So flurry away.
It'd have to be subdual damage, and you'd a lot of stat buffing items and/or spells but that would be pretty fun to watch. Can't get any multipliers on it (ride by unarmed attack I guess would work if you wanted to spirited charge) but the best multiplier in this instance is multiple hits. So flurry away.
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