Epic Level take two

[Trainz]

Dear god... I didn't expect my original thread to degenerate so...

About ELH... I wasn't adressing the power level of the thing. Some like high level, some don't. Different strokes. Myself, I will mostly play games in the 1st to 20th level range, with some epic level games for the fun of it.

What I wanted to adress was the apparent complexity of the system based on the more or less reliable source of the NPC posted on WOTC. I mean, I rarely create NPC's to pit against my players because they take too long to create (skills and feats mostly), and I was worried that this task might be tenfold more difficult at epic levels.

As Eric Noah said so eloquently :"Except for prepping NPCs to use against 15th-20th level PCs, I have no use for Epic Level rules. I can barely keep the abilities of an 8th level wizard straight."

That is exactly what worries me. I do want to power-play sometimes, but I fear that it will not be fun if there is too much calculations and book-keeping. I don't have the time to house-rule like I used to.


Trainz

 

[Nightfall]

Well no one said the life a role player was easy!

 

[Nik_the_Pig]

Sniff, Sniff..... no, no smoke yet....

Unfortunately I feel that no matter what the systrem they end up using, "creating" a Epic lvl character will include a fair amount of bookkeeping that may well eat up your day. Using one in a game, as stated somewhere near the begining of that "other" thread, shouldn't cause that much of a hassel.

How about if ELH had a bonus CD containing a program to create instant Uber-Characters? Only joking, no please don't ask someone to design one, no, no, No..... Aghhhhhhhh............

 

[Piratecat]

Hey Trainz - when that sort of problem happens, please signal a moderator to step in (or at least close the thread). As thread originator, you can always ask that your thread be closed.

Thanks!

 

[Sir Osis of Liver]

I think the system might be a little conbersome, but not to the point you're worried about. When you a skills, no matter what you will have to do more work, but if the pay off is campagian longevity it may be worth while.

Besides, i think the design team knows what thier doing, after all what ever comes otu needs to be playable. Remember one of the main goals of 3e was to keep things as stream lined as possible.

 

[Mortaneus]

*laugh* Just my luck. I post, and the thread gets canned. Ah, well. Here's my take on the whole epic-level thing (with the old-thread-specific stuff removed):

Pro-Epic:
I can finally continue playing my high level character, with an officially supported system for it, that gives me all sorts of cool options and growth possibilities.

I can make villains to challenge my high level (15-20) PCs, and not require them to have an army or two to spare to last more than a round.

Those of us who have characters who have ascended to godhood can possibly still continue playing them (possibly....).


Anti-Epic:

I'm sorry. 800 hp is a bit silly. I mean, heck....what would a 120th level Barbarian look like? 1700hp? That's nuts, when you think about it. That's like surviving re-entry, falling down the gullet of the tarrasque, living through its digestive processes, coming out the back end, and going swimming through a pit of lava. I mean, really.

I really don't have much of a problem with munchkins. I don't play with them, and I don't run for them, but if they want to play in games suited to their taste, and others want to run them, then by all means go for it. The difficulty comes in hearing about people's Sorcerer48/Fighter81/Barbarian293/ Rogue65345 Half-Gold Dragon Lich Minotaur who killed all the gods in every pantheon, chained their tormented spirits up in a pit, and forces them to make booze. It's shades of 1st edition. I think it's already been mentioned, but remember the old Waldorf letter in old issues of Dragon, and the flood of response letters a few months later? *sigh*

Making 18-20'th level characters from scratch takes forever. What will 40+ characters be like?



Anyway, the whole point is really moot. In the end, the only really important question is 'Are the players having fun?' If the answer is 'yes', then there's no problem.


ps. All hail TOON! (and Paranoia....and Teenages from Outer Space...and GURPS IOU, the best setting ever written....)

 

[your_mother]

What I wanted to adress was the apparent complexity of the system based on the more or less reliable source of the NPC posted on WOTC. I mean, I rarely create NPC's to pit against my players because they take too long to create (skills and feats mostly), and I was worried that this task might be tenfold more difficult at epic levels.

Well with any luck, it'll be seamlessly integrated into PCGen and the other character generators out there on the Internet so that it is more of a "click and drag" kind of thing than a "look it up, write it down--don't forget the page numbers" scenario.

 

[Mortaneus]

Re: Re: Epic Level take two

Well with any luck, it'll be seamlessly integrated into PCGen and the other character generators out there on the Internet so that it is more of a "click and drag" kind of thing than a "look it up, write it down--don't forget the page numbers" scenario.

I just wish PCGen could actually have the text of the spells, feats, skills, and items at one's beck-and-call. Oh, well. Can't have everything I guess... (just take a look at Master tools for example....nah, forget I said that. It'll start another fight. )

 

[your_mother]

Epic Level Utilities

Mortaneus writes, "I just wish PCGen could actually have the text of the spells, feats, skills, and items at one's beck-and-call. Oh, well. Can't have everything I guess... (just take a look at Master tools for example....nah, forget I said that. It'll start another fight."

Haha! Yeah, I made a similar observation about PCGen myself. I've also noticed that the content is dependent upon who enters it, so it doesn't always work the way it is supposed to. But sans all that, it's great for saving time; even if I do just print a stat block and scribble notes (i.e. page numbers) as I go along to round things out.

And like I said earlier, if the epic levels--or any future products, for that matter--continue to be integrated into the electronic tools, I doubt things will get too extremely time consuming. Though I do agree with Eric Noah's statement in that it'll be difficult to keep track of *all those stinking attacks / spells / etc.* round after round, during an Epic Level Combat.

And as a footnote, I wanted to remark that your Barbarian scenario in your earlier post (both in the first thread and this one) made me laugh out loud! Thanks.

 

[trancejeremy]

Hmmm. I was hoping that the Epic Level book would be , well, serious. Kinda like how the old basic D&D went up to level 36, then immortality.

But from looking at that post of the character sheet, it seems like it's not very serious. Kinda like the last Bloodstone (?) modules, H4...

Oh well, saves me $40