Epic Level: Worse than Role Master ?

[James McMurray]

Well, here we are two pages later and the thread has been stedafastly pulled into oblivion by people spending too much time discussing the posters and nowhere near enough time discussing the topic. Of course, I for one was not at all surprised when y_m failed to respond to the logical points laid out. I was surprised at the sheer number of people he managed to derail with his rather transparent maneuvering.

Guess it just goes to show you how little one should expect when visiting a public forum.

P.S.
One more logical point I'd like to make to you y_m. You insist you have no time to respond to the true topic at hand, but you seem to be one of the most prolific voices on this thread. I haven't done an exact count, so you may not be the one who has posted the most, but you're definitely int he running. How does that jibe with your claims of lack of time?

 

[your_mother]

prolific

McMurray writes, "You insist you have no time to respond to the true topic at hand, but you seem to be one of the most prolific voices on this thread. I haven't done an exact count, so you may not be the one who has posted the most, but you're definitely int he running. How does that jibe with your claims of lack of time?"

I type fast at lulls in my workload. Now, I'm going home for the day. While these lulls are not long, I type ~137 wpm with 97% accuracy.

"prolific", thanks.

 

[I'm A Banana]

ARGHABLE!

Holy poo, people should stop their bickering.

The ELH will be enjoyed by people who have fun with characters that can officially kill Elminster. Heck, I might run a campaign all about that.

No one's making anyone play any sort of campaign they don't want to. This is very silly to be belittling other people for playing in a different style..

Just because people like epic levels doens't make them too stupid to play Diablo. Just because people don't like epic levels doesn't make them elitist snobs.

Gosh, this is ridiculous.

(now back to your regularly scheduled flame war)

 

[Heretic Apostate]

Being pragmatic here....

Like it or not, munchkin are a part of roleplaying. Don't like it? Tough. Go ahead, drive munchkin from the hobby. But be prepared to either see most RPG companies go bankrupt, or expect to see prices on RPG material go up substantially.

You see, there is a LARGE segment of the RPG customer base that is munchkin. Don't believe it? Ask WOTC. They found out that it was better business to pander to the munchkins (wider customer base) than to try to kowtow to the elitists and the purists. WOTC is still trying to preserve the elitists, by making sure that there is a distinction between what is core and what is optional. However, they know they can make money off of munchkin books like Epic Level Handbook, Tooth & Claw (or whatever is the upcoming book on how to play monstrous races), and the Faiths & Pantheons (or whatever is the forthcoming gods book, which is rumored to contain how to do godly levels of play). They won't sell as many of these as they sell of the three core rulebooks, mind you. But there's enough of a munchkin presense to warrant their publication, I think.

Remember this one thing, if you choose to ignore everything else in my post: It's the munchkins that subsidize your hobby. If the hobby was only supported by the minority who are purists and elitists, if the munchkins are in fact driven from the hobby, you can kiss any new material goodbye. If any new material IS produced, expect to pay at least double, since the print runs wouldn't be as great.

Don't like munchkins? Fine. Don't play with them. But don't drive them from the hobby. They're the ones buying enough volume of stuff to make it affordable for you. You don't have to bow down and kiss their feet. But a little respect would be nice.

(Note: I make similar arguments on message boards where people put down players who cheat in single-player computer games. )

 

[PenguinKing]

Re: Being pragmatic here....

(Note: I make similar arguments on message boards where people put down players who cheat in single-player computer games. )

Depends - if they cheat up the wazoo, then proceed to go around bragging about how "l33t" they are and how much serious players suck, they deserve to get their virtual arses kicked.

(Like my kid brother - he Gamesharks his experience payouts, then proceeds to tell me I suck because my character levels were only half what his were when I completed the game. I mean, what the hell?)

- Sir Bob.

P.S. Nih!

 

[Heretic Apostate]

Re: Re: Being pragmatic here....

Depends - if they cheat up the wazoo, then proceed to go around bragging about how "l33t" they are and how much serious players suck, they deserve to get their virtual arses kicked.

(Like my kid brother - he Gamesharks his experience payouts, then proceeds to tell me I suck because my character levels were only half what his were when I completed the game. I mean, what the hell?)

- Sir Bob.

P.S. Nih!

On this, I agree. I cheat like heck when I play Might & Magic 6 & 7, because I ENJOY being high-level. But since I'm cheating, I know I'm not playing the game as it was intended. Most game designers know, however, that they'll lose a lot of sales if they don't include any cheating ability. And I don't mind if the high score is labelled "cheater" (as in Civilization 2), or if cheating is disabled in multiplayer, or whatever. All I care about is, if I have had a very stressful day, I want to be able to tear apart my opponents with my bare hands. If it's single player, and if the score doesn't count, who the heck cares?

Getting back to the discussion here, in a similar vein, if it's someone else's gaming group, and if they had fun, why should it be anyone else's business if they hand out artifacts at 9th level? Unless it's for RPGA, of course, but then that's not exactly single-player.

 

[Zarrock God of Evil]

All those of you who constantly throw the word "munchkin" around should really read Monte Cook's rant about that:here!

I think it's a god-awful and worthless term...

-Zarrock

 

[rounser]

Unless it's for RPGA, of course

The RPGA isn't all about tearing opponents apart with your bare hands?

 

[Heretic Apostate]

The RPGA isn't all about tearing opponents apart with your bare hands?

Haven't a clue, since I'm not a member. But I assume that there's some sort of baseline as to what's acceptable and what isn't. Isn't there?

 

[Fenes]

Re: Mung Panthers

Fenes writes, "So, I can safely say that I'll probably never use the Epic book for those levels."

Yeah, but what about that fantastic character WotC put up on the web site [see URL at the beginning of this thread]? Will you use him/her/it.

I'll never use it. I'll never run a campaign where I'd need such NPCs - the sheer volume of work to challenge and control the PCs beyound "HAH! Defeat this!" is too much work for too little a result, imho. And if I need high-level NPCs just to appear and give pointers (which I consider bad form, but can be funny from times to times, like sightseeing in a novel), then I don't need stats.