Epic Question #1

[Kai Lord]

Because it's the right thing to do.

The letter of the rules says you're wrong.
The spirit of the rules says you're wrong.
Logic says you're wrong.

Other than that, you make a good point.

 

[mikebr99]

The letter of the rules says you're wrong.
The spirit of the rules says you're wrong.
Logic says you're wrong.

Other than that, you make a good point.

I agree that the rules... as they stand now, allow someone to gain epic feats out of taking a level from the non-epic fighter class... It just seems kind of silly to allow an epic level character, epic abilities from the lowest fighter skill set.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the power level is fairly linear as a character progresses through their career... Therefore at ant time any character pick up a single level of fighter, it should increase the power of the character the same. So, if a 5th level Wizard picks up 1 level of fighter he gets a certain power increase (and no ability to pick up epic feats). By extension, if a 20th (or 45th for that matter) level Wizard picks up a single level of fighter, he is only allowed the same power increase of the (now) 6th level character noted above.

 

[Crothian]

I agree that the rules... as they stand now, allow someone to gain epic feats out of taking a level from the non-epic fighter class... It just seems kind of silly to allow an epic level character, epic abilities from the lowest fighter skill set.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the power level is fairly linear as a character progresses through their career... Therefore at ant time any character pick up a single level of fighter, it should increase the power of the character the same. So, if a 5th level Wizard picks up 1 level of fighter he gets a certain power increase (and no ability to pick up epic feats). By extension, if a 20th (or 45th for that matter) level Wizard picks up a single level of fighter, he is only allowed the same power increase of the (now) 6th level character noted above.

Well, you can't compair gaining a level of a new class in lower levels to gaining it in epic levels. The fighter who takes 20 level, then 20 levels of wizard has a BAB of 30 and four attacks. Reverse that any you have a BAB 0f 20 and only two attacks. So, now the second guy has a better option of bonus feats becasue he can choose epic feats.

 

[Kai Lord]

Well, you can't compair gaining a level of a new class in lower levels to gaining it in epic levels. The fighter who takes 20 level, then 20 levels of wizard has a BAB of 30 and four attacks. Reverse that any you have a BAB 0f 20 and only two attacks. So, now the second guy has a better option of bonus feats becasue he can choose epic feats.

You know, that's the best point I've heard in favor of not house-ruling the epic BAB progression. An epic Wizard who starts taking fighter levels gets to go to town with all the free epic feats, but his epic Fighter buddy who paid his dues in Fighter all the way will have double the attacks. Nice one, Crothian.

 

[mikebr99]

Well, you can't compair gaining a level of a new class in lower levels to gaining it in epic levels. The fighter who takes 20 level, then 20 levels of wizard has a BAB of 30 and four attacks. Reverse that any you have a BAB 0f 20 and only two attacks. So, now the second guy has a better option of bonus feats becasue he can choose epic feats.

ok... I am trying to say that a character at 5th level taking 1 fighter level gains certain stuff (i.e. A bonus "normal" feat)... SO, a character at any level taking one level of fighter should gain the same class abilities.

The phb does not say anything about allowing fighters to spend bonus class feats on epic feats.

The epic fighter class allows bonus feats to be purchased from the epic list.

 

[kreynolds]

You know, that's the best point I've heard in favor of not house-ruling the epic BAB progression. An epic Wizard who starts taking fighter levels gets to go to town with all the free epic feats, but his epic Fighter buddy who paid his dues in Fighter all the way will have double the attacks. Nice one, Crothian.

Another decent point is that a 20th level Fighter that then takes 20 levels of wizard will have a lower Intelligence score because he focused most of his first 20 levels worth of fighter benefits into his fighter stats, such as Strength, Dexterity, and Constitution. Whereas the 20th level Wizard that then takes 20 levels of fighter will have a lower Str and Dex because he focused most of his 20 levels worth of wizard benefits into Int, and maybe Con (for concentration).

Granted, either could overcome this shortfalling with magic items and spells, but that's not very effecient.

EDIT: So, the Fighter 20/Wizard 20 will still be a better fighter than the other fella', but the Wizard 20/Fighter 20 will still be a better spellcaster. It all works out in the end.

 

[kreynolds]

The phb does not say anything about allowing fighters to spend bonus class feats on epic feats.

Perhaps because the epic level rules were in the "embryo" stage, thus there was nothing to base such a statement on?

 

[Crothian]

The phb does not say anything about allowing fighters to spend bonus class feats on epic feats.

The epic fighter class allows bonus feats to be purchased from the epic list.

ELH does rewrite some of the rules we take for granted in the PHB. The alternate BAB and ST are just two examples.

 

[mikebr99]

Well.. if everyone is going to gang up on me, then I'm going home...


So the consensus is that once you hit 21st level... every feat you gain, from any source can be chosen from the epic list, Right?

 

[Crothian]

So the consensus is that once you hit 21st level... every feat you gain, from any source can be chosen from the epic list, Right?

I'm just going with what the book says on this one. I can vbe argued either way.