[Epic]Sneak Attack of Oppurtunity

[jontherev]

Add that feat, then add...

Lingering Damage: Any time you inflict damage with a sneak attack, that target suffers damage equal to your sneak attack bonus damage on your next turn as well.

I'm not sure why my post disappeared, but I'll try to retype it.

OMG!

This is absurdly powerful. But, I have a feeling rogues will be the weakest combat epic class because sneak attack will be rarity. Anyone care to count the number of epic monsters that are sneak attackable?

 

[mikebr99]

Exactally!!

It's good to be the King!!... I mean a Thief!!!

 

[jontherev]

Sure... It is just trying to reflect how super fast and accurate you have become... that any time an opponent drops his guard (even a little) as represented by provoking an AoO... you are able to sneak a good shot in.

But if the baddie is immune to sneak attacks, he is still immune to sneak attacks of opportunity.

Again, the wording of the feat does not imo imply this. Feats sometimes change normal rules, so imo you are making an assumption. I agree that it should work like you suggest, but according to my reading of the feat, it just says ANY AoO you make is a sneak attack. Upon further thought, it occurs to me that perhaps they actually MEANT the feat to be this nice. After all, it is only ONE attack, and it is an epic feat. So, I think I would allow the feat as is.

 

[Furn_Darkside]

Salutations,

The inability to cause sneak attack damage to some creature types is not a feature of the sneak attack ability, but a feature of the creature types.

Unless the feat says it is overriding that feature, then it won't affect them.

They should not have to reprint the rules of the sneak attack ability with every feat that involves it.

When feats change the rules, they tend to precise about it. They don't do it by omission.

FD

 

[Sigma]

Again, the wording of the feat does not imo imply this. Feats sometimes change normal rules, so imo you are making an assumption. I agree that it should work like you suggest, but according to my reading of the feat, it just says ANY AoO you make is a sneak attack. Upon further thought, it occurs to me that perhaps they actually MEANT the feat to be this nice. After all, it is only ONE attack, and it is an epic feat. So, I think I would allow the feat as is.

Can you post the exact wording of the feat for those of us w/o the epic level handbook?

I think you're reading too much into it. If it were meant to give sneak attack damage to anything, it would probably have something like this:

Normal: You cannot get sneak attacks against elementals, constructs, undead, and other creatures w/o discernable anatomy.

Epic level feats are powerful, but that would be putting two very different abilities into one package. I'd also take a look and see if there is a feat that allows rogues to inflict sneak attack damage on creatures that are normally immune. If there is, the implication is that sneak attack damage against immune targets is a separate ability.

 

[jontherev]

Salutations,

The inability to cause sneak attack damage to some creature types is not a feature of the sneak attack ability, but a feature of the creature types.

Unless the feat says it is overriding that feature, then it won't affect them.

They should not have to reprint the rules of the sneak attack ability with every feat that involves it.

When feats change the rules, they tend to precise about it. They don't do it by omission.

FD

Yes, but as written, it does! So, if they didn't want to cause confusion, they should have added a simple line to state that creatures immune to sneak attack are also immune to the effects of this feat. They don't have to reprint the entire section from the PHB on SA. I am just interpreting what they printed. When I read the feat, it is very clear that ANY AoO is a sneak attack. That statement imo clearly allows sneak attacks against anyone.

 

[mikebr99]

I hesitate to do this in its entirety, but, here goes...

Sneak Attack of Opportunity [Epic]
Whenever your opponent lets his guard down, you can make a sneak attack.
Prerequisites: Sneak attack +8d6, opportunist class feature
Benefit: Any attack of opportunity you make is considered a sneak attack.

I am with FD on how this feat should be ruled on by the way...

 

[Sigma]

Thanks for posting the feat! These discussions are difficult w/o them.

I think it's pretty clear from the wording of the feat that it does not allow you to sneak attack creatures normally immune. It says that it any attack you make is a sneak attack. Big deal. If you flank a golem, and make an attack, that's still considered a sneak attack. However, because he's a golem, he's immune to the extra damage. Same applies here. From the SRD:

A rogue can only sneak attack a living creature with a discernible anatomy. Any creature that is immune to critical hits is also not vulnerable to sneak attacks. The rogue must be able to see the target well enough to pick out a vital spot and must be able to reach a vital spot. The rogue cannot sneak attack while striking a creature with concealment or striking the limbs of a creature whose vitals are beyond reach.

Note the bolded line. A creature who is immune to critical hits is not vulnerable to a sneak attack. You can attempt to make one, just as you can attempt to critical it, but that doesn't mean they'll take extra damage if you succeed.

I suppose there's a better case to be made for allowing the feat to let a rogue make sneak attacks against foes with concealment, since the feat says that any AoO is a sneak attack, but I still think that's an overly liberal application of the rules. All this feat does is add an additional condition for a sneak attacks. It doesn't change any of the other rules regarding it.

 

[mikebr99]

Thanks for posting the feat! These discussions are difficult w/o them.

I think it's pretty clear from the wording of the feat that it does not allow you to sneak attack creatures normally immune. It says that it any attack you make is a sneak attack. Big deal. If you flank a golem, and make an attack, that's still considered a sneak attack. However, because he's a golem, he's immune to the extra damage. Same applies here. From the SRD:



Note the bolded line. A creature who is immune to critical hits is not vulnerable to a sneak attack. You can attempt to make one, just as you can attempt to critical it, but that doesn't mean they'll take extra damage if you succeed.

I suppose there's a better case to be made for allowing the feat to let a rogue make sneak attacks against foes with concealment, since the feat says that any AoO is a sneak attack, but I still think that's an overly liberal application of the rules. All this feat does is add an additional condition for a sneak attacks. It doesn't change any of the other rules regarding it.

Agreed...

 

[novyet]

Having just bought it (woo hoo!) and looked myself, I'd definitely say it works just like Sigma, Furn and Mike say, it's a normal sneak attack, so anything immune to it, still takes no damage.

Nice feat though, I like the tie to oppurtunist.