[Epic] the utter unepicness of epic spellcasting...

[Amrynn Moonshadow]

hullo friends again, long time no see. anyway, to the point.

according to the srd (i know the 3.0 epic level handbook has much more goodies to be had, and does) epic spellcasting, in terms of spell slots / spell levels are not exactly as epic as they would seem. this is specifically true for wizards. they top out at 9th level spells at 17th level for their class. additionally they are only going to get a MAXIMUM of 4 spell slots / level of spell (not including bonus spells). and then can take an EPIC feat for a 10th level spell (+bonus spells for high int) if they have the required INT score. (10+spell level (10) = 20+)

yes, said feat can be taken many times, does that just simply mean the wizard gets one 10th lvl spell and then one 11th lvl spell, etc? or what?

I looked at the spells/day list for spell casting people. frankly, why does it stop there? perhaps it doesn't have to . . .

being EPIC (ie. 20+ levels in one class) and then STILL CONTINUING ON for handfulls of levels after should have some advantages (besides having more enemies after you). maybe some feats can help out.

I enjoy that feat from the EPIC set which allows you to have a spell in the next level (ie. 10th). if that was coupled with a spell casting progression (you know: 1,2,2,3,3,3,4,4,4....) which continued on now, to include 10th level spells. perhaps an epic feat (Lengthened Spellcasting Ability -- pre'req: 20 levels in spellcasting class, EPIC Spellcasting feat (or whatever it's called), etc...)

eg. (from the srd) a 20th level wizard gets four 9th level spells. a 21st level wizard is just the same, unless he takes the feat for one 10th level spell.

basically: 21st level wizard:
spell slots / day over spell level:

.....9th / 10th
.......4 / 1

I propose that in the cases where in the character takes that feat (improved spell slot, or whatever it is called) the 10th level spell slots appear naturally, in the order that the previous 1st through 9th level spell slots occured.

eg. 21st level guy, same stats, same feat which allows for 10th level spell slots

9th / 10th
3 / 2

(not unlike the number of 1st lvl and 2nd lvl spells a 4th level wizard has)

if that guy then takes the next feat he gets access to 11th level spells. (so that a 25th level wizard would get four 9th level spells, four 10th level spells and three 11th level spells . . .)

soon enough though we see the whole 4 base spell slots topping out problem. another feat (augmented epic spellcasting?) may continue the progression of spells / level. (eg: 1,2,2,3,3,3,4,4,4,4,5,5,5,5,5,6,6,6,6,6,6,7,7,7,7,7,7,7....) as opposed to 1,2,2,3,3,3,4,4,4,4,4,4,4,4,4.......

comments? am i just crazy? why do i think everything about wizards is wrong? (big beef being how specialists aren't really that special . . .)

 

[Li Shenron]

You are not crazy, but I think they didn't want a spellcaster to have one day hundreds of spells/day; that might slow down the game a lot when you have to decide which spells to prepare every time, and you will rarely need to cast all those spells in one day. Just as they stopped BAB to grant extra attacks.

Remember that once an epic spellcaster gets the feat to cast 10th level spells, I think he could be able to get also bonus spell slots (if he manages to reach a very high Int/Cha/Wis). Furthermore, there are no spells inherently higher than level IX, and all those extra slots will be filled with metamagicked versions of spells, which slightly lessen the need for such high slots.

 

[MerakSpielman]

Well, technically epic spells no longer follow the convention of "levels." So there are no "10th level spells."

You take the feat Epic Spellcasting. You can now research and cast epic spells. You have a number of epic spell slots equal to your Spellcraft modifier divided by 10. Epic spells can do anything, but you don't find out if a particular spell is within your ability until after you've spent time researching it. After you research it, you can cast it at any time without preparation, but no more times per day than you have epic spell slots, and you have to succeed at a Spellcraft check of great difficulty to pull it off.

That said, the expample epic spells in the ELH are a little... unepic to me. You gotta be around 50th to 80th level to be able to cast the few really good ones reliably.

 

[Psion]

Erm... wow. As if high level wizards weren't spotlight hogs without even more world stopping spells.

Once you get to be a high level spellcaster, your primary class feature other than continuing increase in the caster level of your spells is the bonus feats for your class.

 

[Li Shenron]

Well, technically epic spells no longer follow the convention of "levels." So there are no "10th level spells."

You take the feat Epic Spellcasting. You can now research and cast epic spells. You have a number of epic spell slots equal to your Spellcraft modifier divided by 10. Epic spells can do anything, but you don't find out if a particular spell is within your ability until after you've spent time researching it. After you research it, you can cast it at any time without preparation, but no more times per day than you have epic spell slots, and you have to succeed at a Spellcraft check of great difficulty to pull it off.

That said, the expample epic spells in the ELH are a little... unepic to me. You gotta be around 50th to 80th level to be able to cast the few really good ones reliably.

I think he was talking about Improved Spell Capacity...

Epic Spellcasting is still a mystery to me, I cannot say anything before trying. Well, I haven' tried ISC either, but at least that sounds more explicable.