The Lost Muse
First Post
If they do go level by level, I hope they put out a 4e Rules Cyclopedia at the end.
Eric Noah's Info
- Thread starter sfgiants
- Start date
Steel_Wind
Legend
Updating 2e to 3E was brilliant, as it welcomed back into the fold a whole generation of gamers who had drifted awy from 1e and 2e.
It was TIME to change to 3E from a demographics, marketing and design perspective. There was absolutely ZERO reason to stick with 2e.
This time - it is wholly different.
This isn't about 3.5 needing revision; this is about planned obsolesence to sell more core rules.
Good luck with all that. The problem with hardcover rule books is the same one you have with older published adventures and lead pewter figurines:
They don't suddenly stop working because you would find it convenient to your bottom line if they did.
It's too soon. This will destroy the brand.
If they had half a clue, they would instead reconceive the D&D basic game as something in small original D&D style books and sell it with the miniature line - with the miniature cards servigin as the monster manuals.
THAT would make sense as an introductory game. But 3.5 itself isn't broken. It doesn't need replacing. Not even if you really, really wish it did.
It was TIME to change to 3E from a demographics, marketing and design perspective. There was absolutely ZERO reason to stick with 2e.
This time - it is wholly different.
This isn't about 3.5 needing revision; this is about planned obsolesence to sell more core rules.
Good luck with all that. The problem with hardcover rule books is the same one you have with older published adventures and lead pewter figurines:
They don't suddenly stop working because you would find it convenient to your bottom line if they did.
It's too soon. This will destroy the brand.
If they had half a clue, they would instead reconceive the D&D basic game as something in small original D&D style books and sell it with the miniature line - with the miniature cards servigin as the monster manuals.
THAT would make sense as an introductory game. But 3.5 itself isn't broken. It doesn't need replacing. Not even if you really, really wish it did.
dvvega
Explorer
First up, I don't think Mr Noah would blindly post what he did without checking and getting some information - so I'm believing it.
Second - every company who is trying to make money is always looking at their future. Look at Microsoft and the countless versions of Office that are created and how the most recent versions treat the user pretty much like an idiot. However their file formats haven't changed dramatically (so 4e might be 3.5e with changes instead of completely new).
My personal opinion about the smaller packages harks back to a post I made pre-crash.
It will be centered around game functions. So you would get a small booklet on combat (and they would print various types of optional combat rules as well), a booklet on magic (and alternatives) and so forth. These would be based around different concepts: really involved combat for those people who want to take time over their tactical choices, a fast and furious system for those who want more roleplaying.
This way a DM/group could just go and pick up the rulesets he wishes to combine into his version of 4e.
Possibly lead to a booklet per class so the DM can truly limit what his players can play by only okaying the fighter/cleric/wizard/rogue booklets. Each of those booklets would have feats and skills appropriate for that class (reprinting of feats/skills might occur) and you are limited to only using what is in a booklet. This would be very miniature like as well - most miniature games have a limited set of upgrades for heros in their games etc.
Anyway, after all is said and done, I'm sure everyone, no matter how vehemenently opposed to it you are, will look at 4E and most likely buy it.
Second - every company who is trying to make money is always looking at their future. Look at Microsoft and the countless versions of Office that are created and how the most recent versions treat the user pretty much like an idiot. However their file formats haven't changed dramatically (so 4e might be 3.5e with changes instead of completely new).
My personal opinion about the smaller packages harks back to a post I made pre-crash.
It will be centered around game functions. So you would get a small booklet on combat (and they would print various types of optional combat rules as well), a booklet on magic (and alternatives) and so forth. These would be based around different concepts: really involved combat for those people who want to take time over their tactical choices, a fast and furious system for those who want more roleplaying.
This way a DM/group could just go and pick up the rulesets he wishes to combine into his version of 4e.
Possibly lead to a booklet per class so the DM can truly limit what his players can play by only okaying the fighter/cleric/wizard/rogue booklets. Each of those booklets would have feats and skills appropriate for that class (reprinting of feats/skills might occur) and you are limited to only using what is in a booklet. This would be very miniature like as well - most miniature games have a limited set of upgrades for heros in their games etc.
Anyway, after all is said and done, I'm sure everyone, no matter how vehemenently opposed to it you are, will look at 4E and most likely buy it.
OptionalRule
Hyperion
I'm not really up in arms about this altogether. I am not interested in a mini centric RPGish wargame, so if that's what 4th edition is I wont be picking it up.
This had to happen sometime though, 3E was a fantastic bump for the hobby but people lost sight of it as a hobby and began to treat it as a whole "industry". Table top RPGs have always, and will always be a hobby and we're going to have to innovate as hobbiest to keep it alive.
There are other great games out there and a significant subpopulation of gamers are turning away form the simulationist thinking or trying to produce RPGs that compete with computer models. We were never going to have an industry save us.
My biggest hope is WOTC sell off the rpg division as quickly as possible. If someone like Mongoose or Green Ronin were to head it up it could be something spectacular. Still a hobby but spectacular.
This had to happen sometime though, 3E was a fantastic bump for the hobby but people lost sight of it as a hobby and began to treat it as a whole "industry". Table top RPGs have always, and will always be a hobby and we're going to have to innovate as hobbiest to keep it alive.
There are other great games out there and a significant subpopulation of gamers are turning away form the simulationist thinking or trying to produce RPGs that compete with computer models. We were never going to have an industry save us.
My biggest hope is WOTC sell off the rpg division as quickly as possible. If someone like Mongoose or Green Ronin were to head it up it could be something spectacular. Still a hobby but spectacular.
Nellisir
Hero
dvvega said:
I'll look at it. I'll probably buy the first core book. But after that? Don't bet on it. It's not bitterness or something, it's reality. I just finished selling my 2e material last year. I've got several thousand dollars worth of 3e material. I'm happy with the ruleset. The OGL allows me to self-publish until I'm dead. And I've got other things to spend money on.
Imperialus
Explorer
When I first read the announcement I panicked a bit. Once I got my heart rate down and read the thread though the doom and gloom feelings I was having began to subside. I'll probably end up buying 4th ed and playing it. I'm a geek like that. If the hobby suffers as a result it probably wont' affect me that much either. Like other posters have said I have a lifetime worth of D20 books that scarcely have their spines cracked. I'm not ready to give up on 4th ed either though. I remember back when I first heard about 3rd ed rolling my eyes and saying something along the lines of "well this is coming from the company that has put 5 editions of magic out in as many years, I suppose it shouldn't surprise me." Turns out that it's the best thing to have happened to my gaming. No matter what, the hobby is going to survive and even if I'm still playing 3rd ed and OGL produced stuff 6 years from now I'll still probably be perfectly happy.
AdmundfortGeographer
Getting lost in fantasy maps
No. WotC removed those monsters from the SRD (System Reference Document).BluSponge said:
