Eric Noah's Info

[Vigilance]

Updating 2e to 3E was brilliant, as it welcomed back into the fold a whole generation of gamers who had drifted awy from 1e and 2e.

It was TIME to change to 3E from a demographics, marketing and design perspective. There was absolutely ZERO reason to stick with 2e.

This time - it is wholly different.

This isn't about 3.5 needing revision; this is about planned obsolesence to sell more core rules.

Good luck with all that. The problem with hardcover rule books is the same one you have with older published adventures and lead pewter figurines:

They don't suddenly stop working because you would find it convenient to your bottom line if they did.

It's too soon. This will destroy the brand.

If they had half a clue, they would instead reconceive the D&D basic game as something in small original D&D style books and sell it with the miniature line - with the miniature cards servigin as the monster manuals.

THAT would make sense as an introductory game. But 3.5 itself isn't broken. It doesn't need replacing. Not even if you really, really wish it did.

Except based on the Star Wars revision, and 3.5, the market has been showing it most decidedly WILL accept a faster edition/revision schedule than in the past.

This is a new business model for WOTC, one they have been experimenting with, successfully, since the Revised Star Wars game. It's a model White Wolf basically perfected called "revise, reset, resell".

I think after two rounds of this with Star Wars and D&D 3.5, WOTC has an idea of what the market will DO regardless of what a certain segment will SAY.

Chuck

 

[helium3]

*shrug*

They managed to pretty much break the Epic (500 pt) DDM format by undercosting the Aspects of Bahamut and Tiamat in War of the Dragon Queen. Most people who don't build their Epic warband around one of these two minis are screwed in tournament play. Plus, the set contained only one or two minis that are actually of any use in 200 pt games. I don't think any set's been this bad for Skirmish since... Deathknell?

Oh. Uh. I have no idea what you just said.

 

[A'koss]

-A plan to possibly sell off RPGs entirely? Check. (Apparently only miniatures and Magic are making any money for WotC).

Now this strikes me as odd...

We've been hearing from for months and months from the WotC staff that business, if anything, is great. Now this rumor that only their minis lines and Magic make them any money? That doesnt' sound right.

Now while WotC is very probably developing 4e I think this does cast some doubt on the particulars of these rumors.

 

[pogre]

Et tu, pogre?

Vicious bastard.

guilty.



Hey, just 'cause I agree with you doesn't mean I cannot poke ya'!

 

[Moon-Lancer]

haha i wonderd how those two minies would play. I dont play d&d minies but i did ask myself how many points they were and how that could be done. I see now, you have to have one of those two minies to compeat. its like nukes.

 

[Steel_Wind]

Except based on the Star Wars revision, and 3.5, the market has been showing it most decidedly WILL accept a faster edition/revision schedule than in the past.

This is a new business model for WOTC, one they have been experimenting with, successfully, since the Revised Star Wars game. It's a model White Wolf basically perfected called "revise, reset, resell".

I think after two rounds of this with Star Wars and D&D 3.5, WOTC has an idea of what the market will DO regardless of what a certain segment will SAY.

Chuck

I have a shelf with thirty+ 3.x hardcovers on it that says: "Dream on".

That's a circumstance that does not prevail with respect to any of your suggested "models".

If your market is casual gamers only - it might work. Lifestyle gamers will resist bitterly.

What's WotC going to do? Not release any more 3.5 rules? I have more rules that I could read in a lifetime.

Not release any adventures? They've been pretty much carrying out that threat since 2000, rather handily. I have not been detered from 3.x yet.

Tell Paizo to cover only 4E in Dragon and Dungeon? They may well do exactly this. I expect them to. And I expect that Paizo will walk away when the magazines threaten to go under.

They are out of bullets this time Chuck. There is no threat of any consequence that will make me do this. They need to make me WANT to do this.

And I have yet to see a single reason listed in this thread as to why that should be so. Why do I want a 4E at this time, when I have spent thousands - and continue to do so - expanding that 3.x collection?

Why?

In five years time? I might be bored enough to do it. But right now?

Not a snowball's chance.

 

[Dark Psion]

I have a question, if "all the money" comes from Magic: The Gathering and Miniatures;

Where are the M:TG miniatures?

 

[pogre]

I have a shelf with thirty+ 3.x hardcovers on it that says: "Dream on".

That's a circumstance that does not prevail with respect to any of your suggested "models".

If your market is casual gamers only - it might work. Lifestyle gamers will resist bitterly.

What's WotC going to do? Not release any more 3.5 rules? I have more rules that I could read in a lifetime.

Not release any adventures? They've been pretty much carrying out that threat since 2000, rather handily. I have not been detered from 3.x yet.

Tell Paizo to cover only 4E in Dragon and Dungeon? They may well do exactly this. I expect them to. And I expect that Paizo will walk away when the magazines threaten to go under.

They are out of bullets this time Chuck. There is no threat of any consequence that will make me do this. They need to make me WANT to do this.

And I have yet to see a single reason listed in this thread as to why that should be so. Why do I want a 4E at this time, when I have spent thousands - and continue to do so - expanding that 3.x collection?

Why?

In five years time? I might be bored enough to do it. But right now?

Not a snowball's chance.

And, you are not the market where the $ is at I'm guessing.

 

[pogre]

I have a question, if "all the money" comes from Magic: The Gathering and Miniatures;

Where are the M:TG miniatures?

I'm assuming you know there was a line and are just pointing out that Magic the Gathering miniatures line failed.

However those minis were unpainted and that is kind of like judging the potential success of D&D Miniatures on the Chainmail line. Pre-painted minis are a whole different ball-o-wax.

 

[Steel_Wind]

And, you are not the market where the $ is at I'm guessing.

Big money? No.

But the problem with hardcore gamers is that while you hate them - if you lose em? You are *screwed*.

We are not the people who permit a company to make big money. We are the people, however, that represent longterm recurring sales after the casual sales boom and bust peters out. Above all - the hardcore gamer represents a guaranteed minimum sales base for all products.

Ask Paizo how wise they think it is to alienate the hardcore gamer? Mona will tell you: *damned stupid*.

Lose that? You just lost the line on your balance sheet that says "goodwill" and you increase - substantially - the risk associated with every product you release.

If they seriously thought the hardcore would abandon them - they would blink.

I conclude that they believe the hardcore will blink instead. I happen to think they have a good chance of being wrong.

Again - Why do I want 4E?