Erky Timbers feats (Sunless Citadel spoilers)

[Chun-tzu]

Re: Re: Irky Timbers feats

Is there a domain that gives scribe scroll?

The Rune domain in Forgotten Realms gives a free Scribe Scroll feat as its domain power.

 

[Tobold Hornblower]

Thanks Corwin and Chun-tzu.

Sunless Citadel is default WoTC setting, so the FR domain probably won't apply. Maybe there's a Greyhawk God granting a free Scribe Scroll, though.

It didn't give Irky's diety. He's chaotic good and had protection from evil as a spell a spell, so I suggested Kord (favored weapon Greatsword, Domains: Chaos, Good, Luck and Strength.)

But if Irky worships a chaotic good diety with the War and Good domains and light mace as a favored weapon, and he multi-classed as a zero level fighter/cleric, it would seem that he could indeed have the feats: Power Attack, Scribe Scroll, and Weapon Focus (light mace).

I'll have to search the Pantheon when I get back to my books. (Or maybe a second look, and I'll find it in the SRD)

 

[Corwin]

There is all this mention of 0/0 apprentice characters (from the DMG) getting the extra feat. To quote a famous swordsman, "I do not think that word means what you think it means."

I am at a loss as to how some of you come to the conclusion that apprentice level PCs gain an extra feat. Care to explain?

An multiclassed apprentice (0/0) PC is still a 1st level character and gets a feat right then and there, just like any other 1st level PC. At second level, they complete their apprenticeship in their classes and become 1/1. They do not then get any further feats at that point. Even if one of their classes is fighter. That is because the bonus 1st level fighter feat was given to them at 0th level (since that's really the only special thing a fighter gets starting out).

If it makes things clearer, Monte Cook once described the idea of 0/0 apprentice classes as more like ½/½. In fact, when I spoke to him on the matter long ago, we discussed the fact that a fighter-0/ranger-0 would more appropriately have a +1 BAB (insead of the +0 the book would suggest). This is do to the fact that both apprentice classes have a good BAB progression and each apprentice level should really confur a +½. Normally, the round down rule would eliminate the bonus, but not in all cases. But that is technically a house rule since it is not in the books.

 

[apsuman]

There is all this mention of 0/0 apprentice characters (from the DMG) getting the extra feat. To quote a famous swordsman, "I do not think that word means what you think it means."

I am at a loss as to how some of you come to the conclusion that apprentice level PCs gain an extra feat. Care to explain?

An multiclassed apprentice (0/0) PC is still a 1st level character and gets a feat right then and there, just like any other 1st level PC. At second level, they complete their apprenticeship in their classes and become 1/1. They do not then get any further feats at that point. Even if one of their classes is fighter. That is because the bonus 1st level fighter feat was given to them at 0th level (since that's really the only special thing a fighter gets starting out).

Well, if you do not know that irky was a gnome, then there is that pesky bonus feat from being human.

So, 1st level feat
Bonus feat for human,
Bonus feat for fighter

That's the three feats.

As for the 18 hp, he could have eaily had 18 if he were a fighter or a cleric first.


g!

 

[Gaiden]

Not necessarily an error - if he took cleric and had war domain for the weapon focus and another domain for the scribe scroll (I forget what it is - its in FR) then he could technically have 4 or even 5 feats (if he were human).

 

[Corwin]

Well, if you do not know that irky was a gnome, then there is that pesky bonus feat from being human.

So, 1st level feat
Bonus feat for human,
Bonus feat for fighter

That's the three feats.

As for the 18 hp, he could have eaily had 18 if he were a fighter or a cleric first.


g!

Huh? I'm lost... what does this have to do with my comments? Did I say anything about race? My first post covered this more than this current one regarding apprentice level classes. What are you smoking?

 

[Corwin]

Not necessarily an error - if he took cleric and had war domain for the weapon focus and another domain for the scribe scroll (I forget what it is - its in FR) then he could technically have 4 or even 5 feats (if he were human).

I'm sorry, but is there a reason for the reitteration? Are some of our posts invisible?

I just think it's funny that you are repeating what others here have already said. It's not that you can't chime in with a confirmatory response backing up other people's viewpoints, I just thought it was weird seing something like this after we've posted similar comments earlier. Since you didn't say anything regarding your agreement with others, more than likely, you didn't read any of the thread and just responded to the original posts. That happens often around here. No big, I guess.

Hmmm. Maybe my posts are invisible to everyone but me. That would explain a lot actually...

 

[apsuman]

Huh? I'm lost... what does this have to do with my comments? Did I say anything about race? My first post covered this more than this current one regarding apprentice level classes. What are you smoking?

Well, corwin, if this is how kind you are to everyone that posts, then I don't wonder why it is that you are the only one that reads your posts.

You asked, and I quote you here "I am at a loss as to how some of you come to the conclusion that apprentice level PCs gain an extra feat. Care to explain? "

Silly me because of what i was smoking, I was dumb enough to try to answer your question.

The core controversty (unless I missed something) was how could this 2nd level character get 3 feats. My answer was to that core question and your corollary question.

Since I did not know that irky was a gnome, I was at a loss to the problem.

As for Gaiden, has his post, the post stands alone just fine. For example, I didn't know (never had reason to think of it) that it might be possible for the right cleric combination to result in 4 (or 5 if human) feats. That information sits well in the thread IMHO.

g!

 

[Corwin]

Well, corwin, if this is how kind you are to everyone that posts, then I don't wonder why it is that you are the only one that reads your posts.

Kind? What does kindness have to do with this? I didn't attack you. I question your post. Do I need to stroke your ego before asking you what, if anything, your question has to do with my point? Put on a heavier layer of skin when on-line, you appear to nead it. I also detect a bit of preconcieved opinion regarding me in this comment. Though I don't recall having ever "stepped on your toes" before. Anything to that?

You asked, and I quote you here "I am at a loss as to how some of you come to the conclusion that apprentice level PCs gain an extra feat. Care to explain? "

Silly me because of what i was smoking, I was dumb enough to try to answer your question.

The core controversty (unless I missed something) was how could this 2nd level character get 3 feats. My answer was to that core question and your corollary question.

Yes you missed something. Hlaf the posts on this thread, actually. Your answer had nothing to do with my question. Being human has zero relation to the apprentice rules. Nada.

As to the smoking gag, you must have missed the winky. Accidentally? It seems people tend to convieniently overlook those things when they have an axe to grind...

Since I did not know that irky was a gnome, I was at a loss to the problem.

It was pointed out several times before you ever posted. Try reading the thread before you post, it helps.

As for Gaiden, has his post, the post stands alone just fine. For example, I didn't know (never had reason to think of it) that it might be possible for the right cleric combination to result in 4 (or 5 if human) feats. That information sits well in the thread IMHO.

Again, try reading the thread. I pointed out something almost exactly to that point before. Someone else even helped by confirming further that the scribe scroll feat was indead available as a domain bonus as well.

You may want to read my posts again without the dung-collored glasses. I also said it wasn't a big deal to put up a post agreeing with earlier POVs. Gaiden's posts looked very much like one from someone who didn't read the thread. I was mainly commenting on the need to do so before posting. Is that something you don't agree with? Reading the whole thread before posting can help prevent arguments, ignorance, and helps better understand the problem that surfaced in the first place. I never post anything without going through the thread first. It is only considerate of others. Don't you agree?

P.S.> And this is what I get for trying to be funny in the first place... [shrug]

 

[apsuman]

Again, try reading the thread. I pointed out something almost exactly to that point before. Someone else even helped by confirming further that the scribe scroll feat was indead available as a domain bonus as well.

I agree that reading the post is good. So, I reread the thread. Explanation follows:

Tobold asks question

I start my response

milo and enrious answers post before mine.

shisen tells us it's an error.

gamecat slams preprinted modules

milo defends them

tobold answers my question speculates on the cause of the error, and figures out how this character could have the scribe scroll feat.

tobold tries to bridge between gamecat and milo

corwin (you) provide good information on cleric domains.

chun chimes in on a FR way to get the scribe scroll feat for a cleric.

tobold thanks corwin and chun. also provides information on the irky and his possible domains.

then corwin asks "I am at a loss as to how some of you come to the conclusion that apprentice level PCs gain an extra feat. Care to explain? "

so I try to explain how to get three feat as a level 2 character (it is based upon not knowing irky was a gnome).

gaiden points out there is at least one way to get more than 3 feats for a level 2 character.

corwin asks how my post had anything to do with his comments.

corwin asks gaiden how come he didn't respond with an affirmative to someone else's post rather than provide his own information.

I tried to reiterate my position on how to get three feats, and that I thought gaiden added more information to the thread.

corwin told me i was too beligerent (fair enough) but that I apparently didn't read the thread, and that my answer did not come anywhere near to answering his question. also, corwin didn't think that gaiden had read the thread as corwin thought gaiden's posts were more a restatement of previous posts.


Which takes me to back to my answer to your question Corwin,

an apprentice human characeter that was fighter/cleric would have how many feats?

I count three:

1 for being first level
1 from fighter bonus
1 from being human

Now, I might very well be wrong. I have been wrong lots in my life. However, I still think my answer matches your question and Tobold's initial question (given that I did not know irky was a gnome).


I am still confused. (I am confused a lot too.)

1. How do you think that my post does not answer your question.

and,

2. How was gaiden's post not additive and also helpful?

g!