Erky Timbers feats (Sunless Citadel spoilers)

[Corwin]

Thread summarization and analysis. Cool, let's do.

I think you are getting into two different issues with regards to your complaint with me. Confusing the two is, IMO, the real root of the problem.

1) The fact that Irky is a gnome and that this fact was clearly evident before you posted.

2) What my problems with certain comments regarding the apprentice level rules are.

I'll respond to some of your most recent comments:

so I try to explain how to get three feat as a level 2 character (it is based upon not knowing irky was a gnome).

gaiden points out there is at least one way to get more than 3 feats for a level 2 character.

There are actually numerous ways to get more than two feats for a 2nd level PC. None of them are relevant to this thread.

Fact: Irky is a gnome fighter-1/cleric-1 with 3 feats.

Question: How does he have three feats?

Answer: Either one of his cleric domains provides a bonus feat or it is an error.

That's it.

Which takes me to back to my answer to your question Corwin,

an apprentice human characeter that was fighter/cleric would have how many feats?

I count three:

1 for being first level
1 from fighter bonus
1 from being human

This is still not at issue. What does a human apprentice's 3 feats have to do with anything? My contention is with Hornblower's comments regarding apprentice class levels. I will quote them here for you...

Yes, probably using the apprentice multiclass option, he could have gotten the scribe scroll feat, thanks for pointing that out. I'd originally told the player that she could just choose any two of the listed feats, but after she chose Scribe Scroll, I realized it wouldn't work with a straight one class at first level. I feel better now.

and...

But if Irky worships a chaotic good diety with the War and Good domains and light mace as a favored weapon, and he multi-classed as a zero level fighter/cleric, it would seem that he could indeed have the feats: Power Attack, Scribe Scroll, and Weapon Focus (light mace).

These are what I noticed. What is he referring to here? It appears as though he believes that a PC who chooses the apprentice level option gets an extra feat above and beyond what is normally expected. This would be wrong. I clearly got into that with my lengthy post on the matter.

Now, I might very well be wrong. I have been wrong lots in my life. However, I still think my answer matches your question and Tobold's initial question (given that I did not know irky was a gnome).

But the fact that Irky was a gnome was already established. Your not knowing this throws your entire argument into "Uselessville". That's my point. You are making statements that have no bearing on the thread. None what so ever. Your comments were incorrect because of this very fact.

1. How do you think that my post does not answer your question.

Because your question had no bearing on Hornblower's assumption or my answer to it. You went off on some tangent about human bonus feats which meant nothing here. Im sure your answer is relevant to some question somewhere. Just not mine. Just like a broken clock is correct twice a day.

2. How was gaiden's post not additive and also helpful?

Because it, like yours, added nothing relevant. Further, it was nothing more than reiterating what was already stated previously. I believe he did not read the thread before posting. It is a safa assumption because of the wording of his reply. That, or he simply wasn't paying attention. Either way, I felt like commenting on that matter. So sue me.

 

[coyote6]

For Ol' Erky's* skills to make sense, he had to have been a cleric at first level. He has 4 skill points in Concentration, for example; that wouldn't be possible if he started as a fighter. (He's got Int 10, so he gets 8 skill points in whatever class at first level & 2 skill points at second level; most of the skills he seems to have ranks in are cleric class skills, not fighter. Of course, the non-cleric class skill he has ranks in is Spot, which isn't a class skill for cleric or fighter. So I'm not sure how got that +5 Spot. But anyways.)

So he could have picked Scribe Scroll as his first level feat. He just rolled a 6 on his d10 fighter HD.

As for Erky's other feats -- if he doesn't worship a particular god, he could pick any two feats. If he picked Good, he'd get protection from evil as a domain spell; then he could pick War as his second domain, & with light mace being an appropriate weapon for his size, he could get Weapon Focus (Light Mace) as a free feat. Then he could take Power Attack as a fighter bonus feat. Note that his deity (or lack of deity) and domains aren't specified, so this is possible.

OTOH, IMC, I made him a cleric of Garl Glittergold instead, so I had to change his feats -- I just ditched Power Attack, until he hit 3rd level. (Somehow, Erky survived, despite me trying a couple of times to kill him off. )

*(FWIW, it's Erky with an "e". )

 

[Corwin]

*(FWIW, it's Erky with an "e". )

Fair 'nuff. Like I said, I never read SC, so I didn't know.

I'm almost inclined to go back and edit all my posts here to change it, but I'm too lazy. You'll have to suffer.

I like what you had to say on the subject of Erky's skills and feats. Good points. Well thought out. I'd even be inclined to call it definitive.

AFAIC, case closed.

Thanx.

 

[apsuman]

Thread summarization and analysis. Cool, let's do.

1) The fact that Irky is a gnome and that this fact was clearly evident before you posted.

AHA! I found it (I think). See, when I did my summary of the thread I posted that milo and enrious posts appeared before my first post.

So, I did not know that Irky or Erky or whatever his name is was a gnome in my first post. I was: 1) trying to remind Tobold about the apprentice rules, 2)fit the fighter's HP at first level with getting the Scribe Scroll feat at first level, while 3)still coming up with a way for a second level character to have three feats.

I am not trying to turn the tables here, because I could be wrong here, but you might want to reread parts of this thread. When you did ask the question about who thought an apprentice character got an "extra" feat, nobody had taken the position that simply being an apprentice character yielded a bonus feat. If you can show me where I am wrong, I will gladly apologize.

I answered your question because the only way to get an extra feat (total 3) was by being a human. In short, I was trying to agree with you. If you reread my post, I said if you did not know that Irky was a gnome, I was pointing out the only way (that I knew of) for a character to have 2 classes and three feats at level 2 was by being human.

When you followed up you said your comments made no mention of race, which (I thought) further made my point that the only (easiest?) way to have two classes with three feats at level two is if you were human.

Further, I thought that Gaiden pointed out, or rather stated a little more clearly the breadth of feats possible to a character that had cleric levels. So, here I thought his post was a pretty good one. Probably chalk it up to me not being a cleric person.

So when you got , er upset at my post and gaiden's post for not being on topic, I was confused, but I confuse easily.

g!

 

[Tobold Hornblower]

Doh, "E"-rky. That's what I get for having the text at home and the computer at work.

The whole apprentice issue came up because if Erky had average hitpoints rather than random rolls, his first level would have to be fighter. Most creatures in the module had average hitpoints, except specially labeled "Goblin Bandits" and the pet rats Grip and Fang, who had a couple extra. Since all his feats come at first level, he wouldn't qualify for Scribe Scroll as a 1st level fighter and couldn't have gotten it. If you don't figure that Erky was specifically given average stats, then this isn't an issue. If he starts as a 0/0 apprentice, it isn't an issue, either.


coyote6,

Thanks for pointing out that given the concentration ranks, Erky must have taken his first level as Cleric, and my assumption about Erky having average stats must be wrong. And I'd figured that Spot was an error, thanks for reaffirming that also.

Thanks for the input, everyone. Now I know how to make Erky's listed feats work. If anyone can make the +5 Spot work, let me know, I'll check back; but I figured that must be a simple error. The feat is a bigger deal, and I did't want to cheat my player out of a feat, just because I couldn't figure out how he got it. Thanks again, all, for reminding me of the feats as a Cleric Domain's Granted Power.