D&D 5E Escapist article on SCAG is Brutal.

[Charles Rampant]

Tradition certainly matters for D&D. Why else is Ravenloft Castle used as the illustration for the MM Vampire? The question of whether the SCAG + old PDFs is enough is an interesting one. I'm currently trying to acquire stuff to learn about the Realms, and find myself with an odd collection of really old pdfs, less old hardbacks, and now a recent but mostly player-facing supplement. I think that I can use these, selectively, to give myself enough grounding to feel happy - especially as my FLGS has the 4e Neverwinter book for five pounds, and the dndclassics site can give me the Volo/whatever guides to the Sword Coast for more indepth looks; but the question that is raised by all this is: does this make more money for WotC? I mean, do they benefit more from focusing on APs and leaving me to search out old PDFs, or would they gain from a big storming campaign guide? There is certainly some opportunity cost which could be discussed, in both directions!

 

[Jester David]

Am I the only one who is actually glad that the SCAG isn't overloaded with new character options? I like the slow approach WotC is taking. In fact, I'm even a bit leery of introducing the few new options that are in the book. (I haven't introduced any of the Unearthed Arcana playtest material into my games.)

Back in the day, I bought screeds of D&D books of various editions, and I've got the complete set of SWSE books. After a while, it just gets so hard to keep track of everything! These days, I'd much rather have just one book to reference. With the SCAG, we've now got two books. In a few years' time, how many more books will be added to that list?

I agree. I wouldn't have minded a *little* more. A 192-page book with a few extra pages of crunch. Give each class one extra build and two more for the bard, druid, and ranger. Maybe some pages on Spellscars or a couple feats.
That would have been amazing and tided everyone over for the next year without being an overload. There's a lot of pretty basic options for the game we're still missing, and it's going to be a long wait to see them.

 

[JohnLynch]

Am I the only one who is actually glad that the SCAG isn't overloaded with new character options?

I'm quite happy with it as well (and would have preferred slightly less crunch or at least different crunch). 5th edition is a very easy edition to build for in that the power level of each option is quite obvious what power level they are at and so I've been building my own (some of which will become available in EN5ider in the near future). If anything, due to 5th edition's tight design I'm struggling to build too much more material due to how many concepts a single class or subclass can incorporate. And I'm okay with that. I've allowed open slather for my players to use EN5ider material if they so desire while I will be carefully introducing the SCAG material to make sure that I enhance the flavour of the options as much as possible.

Thus far we haven't had any disasters like the Tempest Fighter in 4th edition. So I think WotC's current methodology is working fine with plenty of 3PPs picking up the slack.

 

[I'm A Banana]

Am I the only one who is actually glad that the SCAG isn't overloaded with new character options? I like the slow approach WotC is taking. In fact, I'm even a bit leery of introducing the few new options that are in the book. (I haven't introduced any of the Unearthed Arcana playtest material into my games.)

I agree with this perspective, but I also think the SCAG is kind of a niche purchase.

The weakness from my view isn't necessarily in the amount of crunch. I'm pretty on record as noting that most D&D players probably use astoundingly less crunch than they say they want. I like useful crunch. And I think a book going over the stomping-grounds of these adventures is pretty useful. So I've got no real problem with what it looks like the book was trying to do.

The audience it seems to be designed to serve is first and foremost folks new to FR (perhaps through the 5e adventures). But unless you're a fan already, learning about all the Fairly Generic Events and Places in your Fairly Generic Fantasy Setting isn't necessarily a selling point.

Though I could be selling it short on that - it's possible there's a large audience of D&D players out there who are not hardcore who can really get a lot of mileage out of a low-impact introduction to the Realms. ENWorld probably doesn't have a lot of that potential audience posting in it, but it's totally possible that they're there.

 

[Shasarak]

An entire edition based on bringing back the play of the past and I'm not even a little bit right? LOL. Tradition and lore is EXTREMELY important in D&D. Change even minor elements and people lose their collective minds. The one thing that the past six or so years has proven is just how change adverse D&D players are. Good grief, Paizo's entire marketing push was based on how little they were changing the game. With 5e, WOTC doubled down by giving us an edition that we're supposed to be able to play in any edition style.

And it's "not even a little bit true"?

Nope, not even a tiny bit.

Look at what we have so far, three adventures, some novels and now the FR players guide. Absolutely nothing with the characters waking up from a bad dream with everything back to the good old days where absolutely nothing ever happened.

If the past six years have taught us nothing, it is that FR fans are remarkably patient with the treatment that FR has received especially compared to the fantastic work that Paizo does with Golarion and the Pathfinder universe.

 

[hawkeyefan]

The problem is Wizards is trying to have it both ways but fail to do so.

They want the vagueness of Greyhawk but the popularity of the Forgotten Realms and the two don't mix.

This is entirely subjective. Those two elements work just fine for me. I don't really care about established lore except that I can pick and choose what I'd like to use. I certainly don't feel the need to maintain the proper lineage to the throne of Cormyr or anything like that. I use whatever material I like from any edition.

I don't think that I'm even close to alone in that regard.

Am I the only one who is actually glad that the SCAG isn't overloaded with new character options? I like the slow approach WotC is taking. In fact, I'm even a bit leery of introducing the few new options that are in the book. (I haven't introduced any of the Unearthed Arcana playtest material into my games.)

Back in the day, I bought screeds of D&D books of various editions, and I've got the complete set of SWSE books. After a while, it just gets so hard to keep track of everything! These days, I'd much rather have just one book to reference. With the SCAG, we've now got two books. In a few years' time, how many more books will be added to that list?

I'm perfectly fine with less crunch. It's one of the things that has driven me away from Pathfinder and back to DnD...I can't keep up with all the classes and feats that PF keeps piling on. I don't want to see DnD follow that same model.

I personally hope we never see things like a Player's Handbook 2. We have almost all the classes we need, barring those that might be needed due to the addition of entirely new components like psionics, or something along those lines.

Between the mechanics for backgrounds and the sub-class system, I don't really see the need for more classes, or for more splat books. I think they're better served including background and subclass options tied to whatever the theme of a book is.

 

[Hussar]

Nope, not even a tiny bit.

Look at what we have so far, three adventures, some novels and now the FR players guide. Absolutely nothing with the characters waking up from a bad dream with everything back to the good old days where absolutely nothing ever happened.

If the past six years have taught us nothing, it is that FR fans are remarkably patient with the treatment that FR has received especially compared to the fantastic work that Paizo does with Golarion and the Pathfinder universe.

Three adventure paths, novels and now a sourcebook in one year. I'd say you're not exactly starving for material. One year into Golarion, how much more setting material did you have?

Never minding that why would I bother with a setting guide when we have Candlekeep and the FR wiki. Just how much setting material do you need?

 

[fjw70]

I feel like I might be the only one who noticed the they made a typo on the Wood Elves, calling them "Sy'tel'quessir". I wonder what other mistakes they have in the book.

What should it be?

 

[gyor]

That's because it *isn't* a campaign guide, as I keep pointing out. It's a player's guide, and as such, has about the same level of setting detail as you'd expect for such a product.

Perhaps. Although I am left wondering why so many DMs seem unable (or unwilling?) to fill in the blanks themselves. I'm pretty sure that's what WotC is hoping we'll do. I think they're leaving a lot of detail out on purpose for that very reason. I've been saying all along that 5e is the DIY Edition of D&D. WotC is running D&D on a skeleton crew. They provide us with the coloring book. It's up to us to color it in. (Or they provide us with the dots and it's up to us to connect them.) Etc etc.

What's the point of a player's guide without a campaign guide?

But I do get your point.

Its has too little crunch and player options to be a great player's guide either.

Look at the 4e verison. You had the Swordmage class with levels 1 to 30, filled with countless swordmage spells, you had two subclasses for swordmage, one Genasi and one more elvish, you had paragon paths, including one with shadow magic.

You had Dark Pact warlock, with spells for spells for levels 1-30.

You had Genasi, with 5 subraces, Genasi based paragon paths.

You had feats for moon and sun elves, you had channel divinity feats, you had divine paragon paths, and more.

Compare that to a handful of subclasses and subraces, and some backgrounds, a few cantrips.

Elemental Evil almost has more player content and that was free (if it had some subclasses it would have had more).

Its because your wrong about it being only a player guide, it had too much focus on fluff.

When player content is a small fraction of the material, its not a player's guide.

The truth is it was a mix of FRCG setting, Sword Coast Regional guide, and player's guide and it didn't have the space to do any of that justice.

And WotC over charged on top of that.

It wasn't fair to Green Ronin to put them in that position.

WotC should take a note from how White Wolf handled the world of darkness when the company that bought it didn't want to invest in RPGs anymore.

They licienced to Onyx Path, which has revolutionized both the New World of Darkness and the Old Work World of Darkness, releasing a new editions of both that are vastly improvements.

Onyx Path took an IP and not only saved from slow dissolution, but resurrected a dead one and gave it new life.

Paizo did the same with 3.5, and then created thier own wonderful setting from scratch.

WotC/Hasbro should do the right thing for the D&D and lease the table top and novels to either Paizo or Onyx Path, they seem to be the only ones big enough to do so.

Paizo has the experience in D&D and has alot of former D&D people on staff or as free lancers and Onyx Path has some people experienced in building multiple settings.

Onyx Path alone has settings with in settings. Like NWOD would be like D&D 5e and OWOD would be like D&D 4e if they were different universes.

2e NWOD settings has like had 2e Werewolf: the Forsaken, 2e Vampire: Requiem, Mummy: The Cursed, Demon: The Descent, Beast: The Primordial, and soon coming out with 2e Promeathan: The Created, 2e Mage: The Awakened, 2e Changeling: the Lost, and next year 2e Hunter: The Vigil.

For OWOD they've released a new verison of Vampire: The Mascarade, Werewolf: The Apocaypse, Mage: The Ascension, and Wraith: The Oblivion.

Other Settings they're handling, Cavaliers of Mars, are Pugmere a setting about bipedal dogs set after the fall of humanity, Exalted an Anime style setting, and they're working on a 2e Scion and Trinity.

I have no doubt that Onyx Path can handle the Forgotten Realms and D&D, and before you say but they have no experience in D&D, many of the people that work for Onyx Path worked for White Wolf that created content for Raven Loft and Onyx has a wonderful system in place where they will likely reach out to D&D experts and build teams and stuff. As far as I can see Onyx Path is thriving and so could D&D and the Forgotten Realms in thier hands.

 

[hawkeyefan]

Do other folks consider world/setting material not for players?