D&D 5E Escapist article on SCAG is Brutal.

[Corpsetaker]

I'll admit to choosing books based on how much use they will be at the table. But, I don't buy rpg books just for reading. I have a very pragmatic approach to buying gaming material that I imagine is very much an outlier. The fact that people continue to subscribe to Paizo AP's despite the fact that we already have about ten years of gaming material proves that I'm not the target audience for this kind of book.

You act like everything that Paizo comes out with people buy. What makes Paizo's model so much better is the fact that I have lots to choose from. I'm not afraid to tell my players we will only be using options from XY and Z. That is why they are called options anyway.

Wizards thinks that every player starts with their first adventure and works their way through it. Some do but a lot do not. A lot of people look at it, may decide they don't like it and wait for the next. The next arrives and the same feeling so they wait for the next one. Repeat and rinse.

 

[Corpsetaker]

You just summarized one of the major causes of the disdain for FR by a large portion of D&D fans. (People whinging about how it's not the same anymore are a large part of it, also.) You may see it as a bonus to have 10-zillion tons of lore, but I know several good GMs who won't run the realms because there is simply too much for experienced players to fixate on GM's lack of knowledge.

SCAG does what it needs to do - just enough to support the area where D&D AL play is set. Enough to keep the GM or player invested in the setting, but not so much that if feels like a college text.

And they have already implied they aren't doing the rest because the next 3 AL seasons are all implied to also be set in the Sword Coast.

I wouldn't be surprised to see a SCGMG next season.

How exactly has SCAG fixed long lore issues with experienced players? The lore hasn't gone away. Forgotten Realms isn't a clean slate campaign setting and it never will unless you homebrew it which is very easy.

What large portion of D&D fans are you talking about? You mean the ones that used to occupy the Wizards FR Forums during 3rd edition and then made the place a virtual ghost town when 4th edition Realms came around to the point where Wizards admitted to making a mistake and invented the Sundering in order to bring the Realms back to an older state? Hmmmmm that sounds to me like the larger majority of Realms fans want all the lore to return if they went to all that trouble.

The problem now is Wizards is just less in the business of books.

 

[Desh-Rae-Halra]

Can we get back to what is Brutal about the Escapist's SCAG Review?
I found it, at most, Diet Brutal....maybe 1 calorie Brutal.
If you want Total Brutal, you should get this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v66sQ3S6vS0

 

[Jester David]

To be quite blunt, that is not the Forgotten Realms and that is where WoTc will always fail when it comes to that setting. The popularity and uniqueness of the setting is based around it having so much lore that you don't need to fill in a lot of blanks unless you want to. The setting is based around heavy and detailed lore.

1) The Forgotten Realms was popular from its inception in late 1e when there wasn't a tonne of lore and there was a lot of blank stretches to the world.
2) WotC churned out a LOT of material for the Realms in 3e, so it seems unfair to say they will "always fail".

The problem now is Wizards is just less in the business of books now.

WotC was *never* in the business of books. Or at least not anytime worth remembering. MtG makes more money than D&D. In fact, if you took all the money WotC has made from D&D and book sales since the beginning of time and threw that in a single big pile, it'd probably only be 18 months of decent MtG profit.
They're a collectible trading card game company. They just happen to be a CCG company that occasionally did books on the side. And now they've moved to being a CCG company that manages other people making books on the side. Books have always been vestigial.

 

[Jester David]

Have you got a source for that? I'm just curious. I didn't think they'd stay in the Moonsea forever.

I rather assumed they would stay in the Moonsea region. Living City confined itself entirely to Raven's Bluff. Lots of adventures in the region. They can do their own thing and not step on any toes.

 

[Shasarak]

WotC was *never* in the business of books. Or at least not anytime worth remembering.

**Looks at big pile of books made by WotC beside huge pile of books produced by TSR**

**Looks back at forum post**

**Raises eyebrow**

Never, huh?

 

[Jester David]

**Looks at big pile of books made by WotC beside huge pile of books produced by TSR**

**Looks back at forum post**

**Raises eyebrow**

Never, huh?

Never.
To WotC, their book publishing business was always a rounding error on the books. It's not their business, it was just something they did. Statistically irrelevant.

 

[Shasarak]

So...This whole thread is about a Escapist review of.... nothing?

 

[Desh-Rae-Halra]

1) The Forgotten Realms was popular from its inception in late 1e when there wasn't a tonne of lore and there was a lot of blank stretches to the world.
2) WotC churned out a LOT of material for the Realms in 3e, so it seems unfair to say they will "always fail".



WotC was *never* in the business of books. Or at least not anytime worth remembering. MtG makes more money than D&D. In fact, if you took all the money WotC has made from D&D and book sales since the beginning of time and threw that in a single big pile, it'd probably only be 18 months of decent MtG profit.
They're a collectible trading card game company. They just happen to be a CCG company that occasionally did books on the side. And now they've moved to being a CCG company that manages other people making books on the side. Books have always been vestigial.

Yeah,WoTC was "never" in the business of books:
Especially none of these:

Players Handbook
Monster Manual
Dungeon masters Guide (I'm pretty sure none of these three ever sold significantly)
Arms and Equipment Guide
Book of Challenges: Dungeon Rooms, Puzzles, and Traps
Book of Exalted Deeds
Book of Vile Darkness
Cityscape
Complete Adventurer
Complete Arcane
Complete Champion
Complete Divine
Complete Psionic
Complete Scoundrel
Complete Warrior
Defenders of the Faith
Dieties and Demigods
Draconomicon
Dragon Magic
Drow of the Underdark
Dungeon Survival Guide
Dungeonscape
Elder Evils
Enemies and Allies
Epic Level Handbook
Exemplars of Evil: Deadly Foes to Vex Your Heroes
Expanded Psionics Handbook
Fiend Folio
Fiendish Codex I: Hordes of the Abyss
Fiendish Codex II: Tyrants of the Nine Hells
Frostburn
Ghostwalk
Heroes Builder Guidebook
Heroes of Battle
Heroes of Horror
Libris Mortis
Lords of Madness
Magic Item Compendium
Magic of Incarnum
Manual of the Planes
Masters of the Wild
Miniatures Handbook
Monster Manual II
Monster Manual III
Monster Manual IV
Monster Manual V
Oriental Adventures
Legend of the Five Rings Campaign Setting
Planar Handbook
Player's Handbook II
Psionics Handbook
Races of Destiny
Races of Stone
Races of the Dragon
Races of the Wild
Rules Compendium
Sandstorm
Savage Species
Song and Silence
Spell Compendium
Stormwrack
Stronghold Builders Guidebook
Sword and Fist
Tome and Blood
Tome of Magic
Unearthed Arcana
Weapons of Legacy
* This list doesnt include ANY of the Forgotten Realms books they published

4th Edition Core rulebooks

Dungeon Master's Guide
Monster Manual
Player's Handbook - Arcane, Divine, and Martial Heroes
Roleplaying Game Starter Set

Supplement books

Adventurer's Vault
Adventurer's Vault 2
Arcane Power - Options for Bards, Sorcerers, Swordmages, Warlocks and Wizards
The Book of Vile Darkness
Character Record Sheets
Dark Sun Campaign Setting
Dark Sun Creature Catalog
Deluxe Dungeon Master's Screen
Demonomicon
Divine Power - Options for Avengers, Clerics, Invokers and Paladins
Draconomicon: Chromatic Dragons
Draconomicon: Metallic Dragons
Dragon Magazine Annual 2009
Dungeon Delve
Dungeon Magazine Annual 2010
Dungeon Master's Guide 2
Dungeon Master's Screen
Eberron Campaign Guide
Eberron Player's Guide
Forgotten Realms Campaign Guide
Forgotten Realms Player's Guide
Halls of Undermountain
Hammerfast: A Dwarven Outpost Adventure Site
Into the Unknown: The Dungeon Survival Handbook
Manual of the Planes
Martial Power - Options for Fighters, Rangers, Rogues, and Warlords
Martial Power 2 - Options for Fighters, Rangers, Rogues, and Warlords
Menzoberranzan
Monster Manual 2
Monster Manual 3
Mordenkainen's Magnificent Emporium
Neverwinter Campaign Setting
Open Grave: Secrets of the Undead
The Plane Above: Secrets of the Astral Sea
The Plane Below: Secrets of the Elemental Chaos
Player's Strategy Guide
Player's Handbook 2 - Arcane, Divine, and Primal Heroes
Player's Handbook 3 - Divine, Primal and Psionic Heroes
Player's Handbook Races: Dragonborn
Player's Handbook Races: Tieflings
Player's Option: Heroes of Shadow
Player's Option: Heroes of the Feywild
Player's Option: Heroes of the Elemental Chaos
Primal Power - Options for Barbarians, Druids, Shamans and Wardens
Psionic Power - Options for Ardents, Battleminds, Monks and Psions
The Shadowfell: Gloomwrought And Beyond
Underdark
Vor Rukoth: An Ancient Ruins Adventure Site
Wizards Presents: Races and Classes
Wizards Presents: Worlds and Monsters

Essentials books

Dungeon Master's Kit
Heroes of the Fallen Lands
Heroes of the Forgotten Kingdoms
Monster Vault
Monster Vault: Threats to the Nentir Vale
Rules Compendium

5th Edition:
Players Handbook
Monster Manual
Dungeon Masters Guide

Hoard of the Dragon Queen
Rise of Tiamat
Princes of the Apocalypse
Out of the Abyss
Sword Coast Adventurer's Guide

 

[SkidAce]

WotC was *never* in the business of books. Or at least not anytime worth remembering. MtG makes more money than D&D. In fact, if you took all the money WotC has made from D&D and book sales since the beginning of time and threw that in a single big pile, it'd probably only be 18 months of decent MtG profit.
They're a collectible trading card game company. They just happen to be a CCG company that occasionally did books on the side. And now they've moved to being a CCG company that manages other people making books on the side. Books have always been vestigial.

I didn't think their "Primal Order" books fell into the category of "not anytime worth remembering".