Essence of Necromancy

[Fallen Seraph]

Yeah I think there is a definite difference between Primal Spirits and Spirits of The Dead. I am just wondering if Wizard views it that way too. Which makes me wonder simply because if they do view them as the same, Primal has Spirits quite covered.

Hmm... I guess Wizard too. But, I dunno, I can't imagine them digging through dead bodies, poking nerves, etc. Which is more what I am thinking of. They need that real scientific knowledge to use their magic.

I like those implements too. I definitely agree on "story implements", this is something I would like to see, no matter what form it takes.

 

[Nymrohd]

I think WotC also differentiates between Primal Spirits and Spirits of the Dead, at least judging from the Shadowfell part of MoP and the fluff in PHB2. Primal spirits never seem to depart the world for the shadowfell while the spirits of the dead pass through the shadowfell and from there go beyond. Blackmailing souls to do your bidding by threatening them with eternal oblivion (by using sacrifical daggers that can cut their links to this world) or controlling them with what little ties them to reality (by making fetishes from items they used to own when alive) is the kind of flavor I want to see for the necromancer. Unfortunately it does not sound like the kind of think WotC would do.

 

[Nymrohd]

After some thinking this is what I want from a necromancer:
Role: Controller, Primary: Int, Secondary Con/Wis
Four builts:
Osteomancer: Con build, defender subrole, ranged/melee subrole defender with bone armor and weapons of bone can summon walls and tombs made of bones can create skeletons from the fallen. Thinking a bit of Kimimaro from Naruto
Blood Mage: Con build, ranged subrole leader, can manipulate his blood and that of his enemies, can sacrifice surges to get greater effect out of some spells, has limited healing. Can summon blood elementals or cast spells like bloodstar and avasculate.
Spirit Caller: Wis build, ranged subrole striker, uses spectres and wraits to attack opponents can summon them or force them to possess corpses or even the living. Can trap the souls of the fallen.
Don't have a name for this built: Wis build, ranged subrole defender, can animate the dead and twist flesh, maybe has an undead companion or can get to create undead outside of combat through short rest dailies?, can use powers similar to those of the undead.

Not likely to get this, but this is what I would like.

 

[Kask]

I've been thinking, what makes a Necromancer a Necromancer?

In 4th edition some of the classes have been reinvented, given mechanics unlike previous editions. Classes do not need to be a direct translation from previous editions.

Which begs the question, what is the essence of a Necromancer?

What parts from former editions were particularly good?

Do you know any good examples from fiction? Mythology?

Here is the historical place to start.
Function:noun Etymology:alteration of Middle English nigromancie, from Anglo-French, from Medieval Latin nigromantia, by folk etymology from Late Latin necromantia, from Late Greek nekromanteia, from Greek nekr- + -manteia -mancyDate:1522 1 : conjuration of the spirits of the dead for purposes of magically revealing the future or influencing the course of events

 

[Nymrohd]

I doubt that the concept of the necromancer in D&D has much in common with the oracles of the Necromanteion of Dodoni in ancient Greece (who predicted the future by shifting through the entrails of dead creatures or burning those remains as well as interpreting omens given they lived by the river Acheron, the entrance to Hades). Nothing about animating the dead there.

 

[Kask]

I doubt that the concept of the necromancer in D&D has much in common with the oracles of the Necromanteion of Dodoni in ancient Greece (who predicted the future by shifting through the entrails of dead creatures or burning those remains as well as interpreting omens given they lived by the river Acheron, the entrance to Hades). Nothing about animating the dead there.

Read the definition.

 

[tuxgeo]

I've been thinking, what makes a Necromancer a Necromancer?

In 4th edition some of the classes have been reinvented, given mechanics unlike previous editions. Classes do not need to be a direct translation from previous editions.

Which begs the question, what is the essence of a Necromancer?

(1) It invites the question; it does not "beg" it. ("Begging the question" is the official name of one of the informal logical fallacies.)
(2) The "essence of a Necromancer" is putrescence. ("You're welcome!") (Well, that's what they all smell like. . . .)
(3) The thing that makes a Necromancer a Necromancer is the rules. If a rule states that a certain character is a Necromancer, then he or she (or it) is; otherwise not. Essential matters of flavor matter not in the brave new edition.

 

[Piratecat]

(1) It invites the question; it does not "beg" it. ("Begging the question" is the official name of one of the informal logical fallacies.)
(2) The "essence of a Necromancer" is putrescence. ("You're welcome!") (Well, that's what they all smell like. . . .)
(3) The thing that makes a Necromancer a Necromancer is the rules. If a rule states that a certain character is a Necromancer, then he or she (or it) is; otherwise not. Essential matters of flavor matter not in the brave new edition.

Gentle reminder: there are times that being pedantic is essential to clarifying the conversation, and there are times like this one. It's usually best to contribute to the discussion instead of snarky editorializing or becoming an unpaid editor. I think you had an interesting point in #2, but it's getting lost in the rest of your post.

Thanks.

 

[Byronic]

Essential matters of flavor matter not in the brave new edition.

Maybe in your game but I'm thrusting flavour down my players throat. We're also slowly abandoning silly things like "one summon at a time because we don't want the Druid player to have an extra 30 seconds of play"

It's one of the things we're introducing with the necromancer. x amount of minions that take instinctive actions to kill the nearest living things. Now that's an entertaining power

 

[Irda Ranger]

In 4E-speak, I would say the essence of Necromancy is manipulating the relationships between Body, Soul and Animus; as well as the ability to remove or imbue vitae and mortae from/into the Body, Soul or Animus.