Essentials - calling a spade a spade

[Fifth Element]

After a certain age or so, I just accepted the fact that corporations (or any large organization) are not expected to tell the full truth about anything, and will resort to tactics such as: lying, obfuscation, deception, etc ... As long as they can get away with something legally, it will be done.

Basically the marketing and PR people are paid to say things they do not necessarily believe in.

This is often true. But there is something else just as often overlooked: plans change. If Essentials were clearly marked as being 4.5, people would jump down WotC's throat for lying to them in the past when they said there would be no 4.5. But a more reasonable interpretation might be that they changed their plans. It happens in business. If something isn't working as well as had been hoped, something else is tried.

 

[Fifth Element]

Otherwise known as "the target audience of Essentials."

Highly unlikely. It seems to be targeted at new players, people who may have heard of D&D but never tried it. It's certainly not targeted at 4E haters; they ain't ever playing 4E.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

After a certain age or so, I just accepted the fact that corporations (or any large organization) are not expected to tell the full truth about anything, and will resort to tactics such as: lying, obfuscation, deception, etc ... As long as they can get away with something legally, it will be done.

Basically the marketing and PR people are paid to say things they do not necessarily believe in.

No, but after some years of watching, i came to the conclusion that not telling the truth or better say nothing at all is needed to convince many people the sky is not falling... Telling the truth will result in people overreacting and forgetting that we are not livin on a ponyfarm and that you need money to survive. As a corporation and as individuals working for them.

And this is why they don´t labeled it PHB 4. Would have created less overreactions here. But would not achieve making the game more accessible for new or lapsed players.
Even when PHB4 was printed with 3.5 rules in it, no 3.5 player would bother to look into it. With the label essentials on it, this eacact player could become curious and maybe likes what he is seeing inside. (A reason why heroes books may not be coming in boxed sets, too.)

You know, quality and truth is nothing. People want to be blended by advertisement campaigns. If both match more or less (for the common user at least), a product can possibly establish itself.

Sometimes a little bit less robustness can be overcompensated by nice design, easy access, extra components, and a cheap price... seems like essentials will go this route

 

[ggroy]

No, but after some years of watching, i came to the conclusion that not telling the truth or better say nothing at all is needed to convince many people the sky is not falling... Telling the truth will result in people overreacting and forgetting that we are not livin on a ponyfarm and that you need money to survive. As a corporation and as individuals working for them.

Of course. This is the entire game about "managing expectations".

The full truth can be very damaging in some cases. This is easy to see when somebody is subpoenaed to appear in court, and under oath. (Assuming they don't plead the fifth).

 

[Otakkun]

I've been on a few-month hiatus from all things RPG-related, including playing, reading these boards, and paying attention to the RPG industry in general, so forgive me if all of this has been discussed ad nauseum already. I've just spent the last half hour or so investigating this "D&D Essentials" creature that's arrival is imminent...

I've just heard of it. Could you share some innsights on what most call 4.5E? Links or some interesting topics?

Thanks.

 

[Odhanan]

And hence I begin anticipating the day when books become obsolete and the game is simply allowed to evolve as needed via patches to a digital database.

All this hair-splitting about what does and doesn't constitute a new edition has actually made me wish for the demise of books. May you all grow warts in irritating places.

Whatever game exists just as a digital database will not see any play at my game table. Not that I refuse for the game to evolve and adapt to new audiences, but I play with actual people, at an actual game table with actual books laying on it.

If the all-digital is the way of the future, I will not be part of it. At least not this particular future.

 

[the Jester]

Whatever game exists just as a digital database will not see any play at my game table. Not that I refuse for the game to evolve and adapt to new audiences, but I play with actual people, at an actual game table with actual books laying on it.

If the all-digital is the way of the future, I will not be part of it. At least not this particular future.

Although this hypothetical no-book system might be a perfectly awesome game, I love looking at my books so much that I cannot imagine it ever really satisfying me.

 

[nnms]

All digital isn't happening any time soon. Not really any point about worrying about books going away. The whole point of Wizards is as a publisher (of magic cards, D&D books, etc.,). They may be dipping their toes into the whole digital initiative thing, but I think it might be a bit early to predict a complete move to non-physical publication.

 

[Colmarr]

I only have one question. Where were you a year ago when all your criteria were already met for a "new edition"? Most of what you claim constitutes 4.5 has been in the errata for over a year.

I don't agree that the criteria had been met a year ago.

When they added psionics they changed how at-will/encounter power progression worked and that was a major change.

Psionics was always "different", even in 3.0. It would have been hidebound obstinateness to consider the introduction of new mechanics for psionics as 4.5

Lots of powers (other than MM) have had massive errata almost completely changing the way they work.

And most of them (such as Blade Cascade) were for clear and explicitly identified power reasons. Changing Magic Missile for nostalgia's sake is something entirely different.

I'm not sure what you meant by "Additional class features after 1st level" so you'll have to clear that up, but if it's what I think it is that's just new options in the existing framework.

I'm referring to the specific class features that the new essential builds pick up at levels above 1 (such as Quick Swap, Mighty Slayer and Inexorable Slayer that the slayer build acquires at levels 4, 5 and 9 respectively).

That is completely outside the existing design structure for pre-Essentials 4e.

I still stand by my position. If you say Essentials is 4.5 then where were you BEFORE Essentials was announced saying 4.1 or 4.2?

To be honest, if WotC hadn't shouted their new creation from the rooftops, if they had slipped the slayer and knight and warpriest and thief in as individual builds in Martial/Divine Power X, I probably never would have cried 4.X.

But they did, and in doing so they opened my eyes. The game post-Essentials will be fundamentally different to the game before it. I personally think most of the changes are good ones and I'm looking forward to seeing how they turn out (and I LIKE that WotC is still working on improving the game), but I think it's disingenuous and/or naive to consider Essentials anything other than a new iteration of the game.

 

[Jhaelen]

If they had:

• called all the new builds PHB4
• put all the updated rules in DMG3
• and just issued a new MM4

Would anybody really give a crap? Really?

You bet! You seem to have forgotten the outrage when details about a certain feat in PHB2 became known. It was the #1 topic on these boards for at least two months (actually, there's still an active thread about it!).

4E Essentials is really the 3.141592 edition of D&D.

In order words, the "pi editon".

Hmm, I like pi(e).