Essentials Line and HS series: It appears WoTC really is listening.

[catsclaw227]

There's already a whole huge thread on the Essentials Line, and judging from the comments by posters here a EnWorld, it appears as though WoTC really is listening and working on alternate ways to bring new and older gamers back to the current version D&D. I won't rehash what is being said in the other thread, but here's some snippets:

However what it is IMO is an exciting addition to the options that 4E gives, allowing differing character styles, and also an incentive for me to buy my first physical 4E product (apart from DMG2) for a long long time.

Instead my sense is that of an overlay of new options that work with the established core but offer play experiences more in line with the preferences of some non-switchers.

As a current 4e DM and player, the Essentials line for 4e is giving me a little of that rush I felt with the lead up to 3e.

"Why yes, this is one of my problems, and I see here that you have a nice solution all lined up for me! Hooray!"

4.whatever, I don't care what you call it, it is entirely Good News. And I looooooooooooooooooooooourve the idea of making a more domain-centric cleric. It helps guide archetypal choices very well.

I also did a little double-take at the XP chart...

This sounds like it's fixing nearly all of my problems about the current core classes. About the only big change that I could otherwise hope for is a non-grid-based combat system, but I'm not holding my breath for that one.

In addition, I went to amazon to check out HS1 and HS2, the first two of the new series of adventures by the Wizards. The second isn't out yet, but HS1 has [ame="http://www.amazon.com/Slaying-Stone-Adventure-HS1-4th/dp/0786953888/ref=pd_cp_b_1"]a couple of mediocre ratings[/ame] that shed some light on the style of adventure that is being created these days -- though not talking about DDI Dungeon adventures.

Are these new adventures going to be as sandboxy as they are being described?

Here's some of the comments:

Up till now their modules were very linear, and the DM had to lead the players from one area to the next. This one presents an area that is more of a sandbox. Several areas are outlined and a few encounters are explained for each one. This gives the players far more freedom to explore and complete the adventure in their own way.

There is a downside to this freedom. The book is much smaller then the previous modules, which means a good deal of the areas and encounters are missing. This may not be an ideal module for a first time DM since it will require a bit more effort to make it work. For an more experienced DM it could be a good choice since it allows you to fill in a lot more of the details to get the module to match with your campaign's story.

The author of The Slaying Stone, Logan Bonner, has allowed plenty of room for improvisation by experienced players/DM's. For Novice DM's however, it may not be the easiest module to run, as it seems like it will require a lot of "thinking on your feet" and spontaneity.

So, is it really true??

I am really glad that WoTC is taking all the comments and opinions to heart, trying to work the ideas back into the game without alienating all the current 4e players that really enjoy the system as it stands now. Really, its a wonderful testament to the modularity of exception based design.

Throw in Hammerfast and the upcoming [ame="http://www.amazon.com/Vor-Rukoth-Ancient-Ruins-Adventure/dp/078695549X/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1279378345&sr=8-2"]Vor Rukoth[/ame] and it looks like WoTC is trying to bring back some of the early edition feeling and maybe even the site-based adventure locations.

The linear adventures let us get our feet wet and our minds focused on learning the mechanics. Now that most of the mechanics for veteran 4e players and DMs are fading into the background, the opportunity for richer stories and more open sandbox style adventuring may be opening up.

I am starting to feel that this is a good time for 3PP companies to start making some products like the HS series of adventures or the locations like Hammerfast and Vol Rukoth.

Your thoughts?

 

[I'm A Banana]

The Essentials line has me all excited, it's true. The Wizard was previewed, and its Magic-Missile at-will was auto-hitting, and it featured schools of magic, and I was converted.

As my quote hinted, this might not be everything I want, but it is a lot of what I wanted for the player's side.

The DM's side will, I guess, have to wait for the DM's essentials stuff. There's a lot of leaps I think 4e can still make, especially with regards to monster presentation (which is another area they've listened to the critics on: the MM3 has some amazing fluff material, and very few horrible portmanteaux) and ease of DMing (can I get a random treasure table, plz?).

The stuff that they might not have, they might not be able to give me. Some of that might still lead to me abandoning 4e sooner than I otherwise would (Grid-based combat kills me, every time), but those are probably things that WotC really can't change, without a fundamental edition transition.

I love that they're listening to the reasonable critics out there, that they're not so proud or self-insulating that they create a feedback loop of only truefans. It's one of the reasons that WotC continues to be an exceptional company in my mind.

I can't speak to the adventures, but Paizo will pretty much always be two steps ahead in that regard.

 

[Dragonblade]

I am running the Slaying Stone now. I like it. It has an old school sandbox feel. Several major encounters are outlined but they can happen in any order depending on the choices the PCs make. There is also a lot of different factions with competing goals that present a good opportunity for the PCs to improvise and take a diplomatic rather than combat approach to some of the encounters.

 

[Imaro]

I bought, ran and really liked HS1 (I highly recomend it)...that said, the comments I've seen about HS2 are that it and HS1 are like night and day. HS2 is supposedly a very linear dungeon trek (which is starnge because it's a higher level than HS1)... so take that as you will, but I doubt if I'll grab HS2

 

[Camelot]

I've only read through the Slaying Stone, but I was impressed. It has good skill challenges, for one thing, unlike Keep on the Shadowfell. It also has a lot of information at the beginning about NPCs and groups that the PCs can interact with. My favorite little thing was the "dramatic hooks," brief optional scenes that encouraged dramatic moments to spook the players.

I too am excited about Essentials. I'm just treating it like more options, like a set of Power books, basically. I'm still more excited for Heroes of Shadow, however. =)

 

[catsclaw227]

The errata update for July really made a ton of changes as well. Magic Missile auto-hitting. Bless is now a minor instead of a standard action, as well as quite a few others.

I really hope HS2 isn't a departure from HS1... I haven't read much about it.

KM, you are right about Wizards listening to reasonable critique. I imagine it's hard to separate the wheat from the chaff with regards to complaints and suggestions.. especially in the volume (in quantity and in noise) that they must receive. Kudos to them for not just tossing it all and just keeping their head in the sand.

 

[Monkey King]

I am starting to feel that this is a good time for 3PP companies to start making some products like the HS series of adventures or the locations like Hammerfast and Vol Rukoth.

I agree completely. Logan Bonner is writing the sandbox adventure The Lost City as a patron project, which fits right into the style discussed here.

And the upcoming Courts of the Shadow Fey (ships in August) is very much in the open exploration style as well, focussed on a Shadow location.

 

[Mark CMG]

I don't think we'll know anything serious about the Essentials line until after a few releases, perhaps by year's end. Once we see how everything is tied together, including with the DDI and the RPGA, we might have a better idea. A handful of quotes and a few previews aren't really enough to show what the big picture will be.

 

[Hawke]

What I'm really enjoying is the flavor text with each power. I've brought maybe 7-8 brand new to roleplaying players into the fold in the last 2 years and found that I took for granted the feel and understanding of a fantasy universe that I've gleaned from 2nd edition onward. I think newer players will enjoy the context sprinkled around the powers, and seasoned players also might be able to grab some story hooks or world building elements from them.

When I first heard of Essentials, I figured they might appeal to a group of 100% brand new never played before but wouldn't be anything I'd be interested. Over the last few weeks, that has completely changed for me.

 

[Scurvy_Platypus]

I haven't really followed Essentials news and hearing that their class-design is going back to the old way of varying complexity kills it for me. It also bothers me that it sounds like regardless of what happens with the Essentials line, classes are just going to be that way period.

One of the big appeals to me of 4e was everyone going to a same baseline complexity for classes. Varying complexity is a deal-killer for me. I could just play a 3.x game.

While they talk about this being a product for new as well as existing players, I personally think the main target really is the existing player-base. I realize that I'm a minority view, but *shrug* that's my opinion.

So... happy everyone else is all pumped and planning on buying this, but my interest in buying anything else for 4e is pretty much non-existant.

And listening to the way existing fans are talking about how this is "fixing" this or that, I personally get the whole "edition that's not called an edition" thing. And yeah, I realize that opinion pisses off a bunch of the fans, but it's just my opinion. I'll believe it's not when I see it.