Essentials nostalgia - the death of martial healing

[KarinsDad]

The idea for this just struck me as a response to the "unconscious heroes" idea.

INSPIRING WORD
Your rallying cry allows your ally to shrug off a blow, helping them regain their confidence and composure.
Encounter (Special) * Martial, Healing
Special: You can use this power twice per encounter, but only
once per round. At 16th level, you can use inspiring word
three times per encounter.
Immediate Reaction
Close burst 5 (10 at 11th level, 15 at 21st level)
Trigger: An ally within range takes damage
Effect: The target may spend a healing surge and regain an additional 1d6 hit points. The amount of additional hit points regained is 2d6 at 6th
level, 3d6 at 11th level, 4d6 at 16th level, 5d6 at 21st level,
and 6d6 at 26th level.
Special: You may use this power even if you have already taken an immediate action since your previous turn.

This solves the whole "morale boost an unconscious hero back on their feet!" dilemma by allowing the Warlord to shout their buddy back on their feet before ever even get unconscious. I wouldn't be sure how to adjudicate the "does the guy still fall prone first" issue; I would guess the answer would be yes.

This reinforces the idea that the Warlord isn't magically mending wounds after the fact but is instead keeping his ally's fighting spirits up, even in the face of pain and damage. It also adds another level of strategy to the Warlord (as if it needed it) by forcing the Warlord to make snap decisions on when to use their Inspiring Words. You don't get to wait until your turn to hem and haw over it; you need to do it right then and there, with the understanding that you don't get anymore immediate actions until your next turn. I did toss in that last Special line, because otherwise Warlords will never use their immediate action powers at all.

Curious what you guys think about it.

Lots of problems with this as already mentioned. In addition, it's an Immediate Reaction, so it would bring the prone unconscious PC back up, defeating the purpose of what you wrote. Additionally, this is still healing, so it is still healing. Temporary hit points would work, but real healing is real healing no matter how you slice it.

 

[KarinsDad]

Yup "it was", "used to be", "once had a position as", an iconic new class from the latest edition of D&D it was the intelligent fighter ... now its a non-essential unlikely to be seen by anyone joining the game new just seems pretty sad to me.

This seems like pouting to me. One of your favorite classes didn't make the cut.

I have never met a 4E group that at least ONE player didn't have Character Builder. It's extremely difficult to prepare for the game without it because every PC now has a plethora of options. And people can do a one month subscription per year and just update once per year if they so desire, or not at all. Future changes to all classes are not needed (although some people will want the psionic splat book). The game is now mature enough.

So, one or more players in the group downloads CB and everyone still has access to Warlord.

There might be a group in the middle of a jungle somewhere that cannot manage this, but probably 98+% of the groups will.

Even people playing Essentials will often eventually branch out into other material like original 4E material. It's human nature to do so, even if they start out with the simple version of the game.

 

[mkill]

This seems like pouting to me. One of your favorite classes didn't make the cut.

It's proper grognard behaviour (They changed it now it sucks).

Yay. The edition is barely 2 years old and we have grognards already.

 

[Aegeri]

I don't buy this.

There are so many different ways to heal in the game system, that if the Warlord could only hand out temporary hit points, that would be enough.

You know, have you ever played epic tier with MM3 changes? Monsters can cleave through HPs like butter now and when you go unconscious more regularly temporary hit points don't cut it. Before if you had a surge worth of temp HP you were practically invulnerable, now monsters will tear through that and your real HP pretty quick. If monsters even remotely focus fire on a PC for a single turn, someone hits the deck in a bloody mess.

Temporary HP have the crucial flaw of doing nothing if you're out on the deck bleeding to death. You can give someone who is below 0 all the temporary HP in the world and it won't make a single difference. Only real HP will bring you back up out of unconscious. Until then a couple of coup de graces and your temp HP is doing something between jack and squat.

The number of handed out temporary hit points would be virtually the same, the only main differences would be unconsciousness and bloodied.

Which are absolutely huge and pretty important things. Monsters aren't gigantic housecats anymore that scratch away and become ineffective the instant PCs get DR 5 or some resists. They really can actually knock the complete stuffing out of you, a leader that is virtually incompetent when it matters is terrible by definition.

If he did hand out temporary hit points though, it would still need to use a healing surge for the same number of points.

That would be a terrible waste of a surge. For one, it doesn't stack and for another at the end of the encounter they lose all their temp HP. Effectively spending surges on HP they then completely waste, requiring further spending of more healing surges to have the same HP. The sheer inefficiency here is staggering compared to any other leader.

As is, the Warlord is one of the best leaders. This wouldn't change that too much and people would still play them.

Nobody would play a leader that absolutely fails to be a leader when it counts.

 

[UngainlyTitan]

Eh, we'll see about how many people go from Essentials to the older stuff. Obviously some people will. Some people will play with existing groups and want the old stuff, some will just pick it up because they are so into the game that they want everything there is. Some won't. They'll look at it and either not be sure if its something they can use or look at it and decide they don't need a book that overlaps what they have with Essentials for 7 out of 8 classes.

True but that is the case even with the existing books. Some people try it and don't like, some keep playing but do not buy more stuff and some do buy more stuff to varying degrees.

I do however suspect that the existing core books will go out of print. Businesses don't like the expense of carrying a bunch of SKUs. Retailers want their shelf space filled with the newest shiniest fastest selling products, etc. Keeping too many different things constantly in print was actually what caused TSR to go under. That doesn't mean these books will be IMPOSSIBLE to get (for a while and heck if you REALLY want one you can go out and get a 1e PHB, you just have to be willing to pay a lot). Its not at all unlikely new versions of warlord etc will show up either, and may even show up fairly quickly. We really don't know. The sky certainly isn't falling. OTOH the observation that Essentials has moved a step back in terms of leader support is still perfectly valid.

Oh, I do expect that older books will problably go out of print, especially that it has been stated that the essentails books become the evergreen rule books. However, for those that are interested in more classes they will be encouraged to buy DDI.
My guess is that the long term strategy is to transition to a totally electronic distribution, or at least a mostly electronic distirbution.
Probably not in the next five years or so but in the long term. I think that was the original vision behind Gleemax and the VTT. They screwed it up and to be honest I don't think the tech is there yet. However, in 5 years you will probably have slate devices for $100 or so and probably good enough contrast to read outdoors. A few year futher out and you will have pretty cheap touch tables (or projection and good motion sensors) and then thing will get really interesting.

 

[Mouseferatu]

That would be a terrible waste of a surge. For one, it doesn't stack and for another at the end of the encounter they lose all their temp HP. Effectively spending surges on HP they then completely waste, requiring further spending of more healing surges to have the same HP. The sheer inefficiency here is staggering compared to any other leader.

And you've just touched on the biggest problem with a healer limited to temporary HP.

They don't stack.

It means that if someone is down more than, say, their surge value and change, the warlord cannot bring them back to full (or the equivalent of full with temp HP), no matter how many actions he wants to spend on them.

I understand the desire, flavor-wise, to limit a martial healer to temp HP. I don't agree with it, and I think it shows a misunderstanding of what HP represent, but I understand it. But mechanically, it cannot work without a complete rewrite of the temporary HP rules.

 

[Klaus]

And you've just touched on the biggest problem with a healer limited to temporary HP.

They don't stack.

It means that if someone is down more than, say, their surge value and change, the warlord cannot bring them back to full (or the equivalent of full with temp HP), no matter how many actions he wants to spend on them.

I understand the desire, flavor-wise, to limit a martial healer to temp HP. I don't agree with it, and I think it shows a misunderstanding of what HP represent, but I understand it. But mechanically, it cannot work without a complete rewrite of the temporary HP rules.

And if a 1st-level fighter can grant himself regeneration, it's silly to say a warlord can't heal actual hit points.

The catch is doing it in a way that feels different from the other healers.

Idea: granting tem hp that turn into actual hp?

 

[knightofround]

Why is anyone concerned about what new players' parties will consist of? If you're not playing with them, you won't be privy to their cleric-only adventures.

I think people are concerned because the move away from "somebody must play the cleric" is perhaps one of the biggest achievements of 4E. That was the biggest complaint I heard throughout all of 2E, 3E, and 3.5E.

If essentials is aimed at 2E/3E players who dropped out of D&D, they're not going to see this improvement and will be less likely to stick around. (Less people playing D&D means less support for all of us)

If essentials is aimed at new players, why hamstring a first-time experience by forcing someone to play a single class. Especially into a role as unpopular as healing (aka Leader in 4E terms). In pretty much every single game, whether it be tabletop RPG, console RPG, or MMO, people are much more eager to be damage-dealers or damage-takers rather than healers.

When's the last time you've seen a healer as *the* main character within the fantasy genre?

 

[KarinsDad]

And you've just touched on the biggest problem with a healer limited to temporary HP.

They don't stack.

It means that if someone is down more than, say, their surge value and change, the warlord cannot bring them back to full (or the equivalent of full with temp HP), no matter how many actions he wants to spend on them.

Nope. If that was the case, he could not. Course, nothing stops the PC from taking multiple short rests to get back all of his hit points either.

This can be what happens if the group has a low level Runepriest in the party. The group more or less takes multiple short rests after combat because the runepriest doesn't really do a lot of bonus healing in combat.

I understand the desire, flavor-wise, to limit a martial healer to temp HP. I don't agree with it, and I think it shows a misunderstanding of what HP represent, but I understand it. But mechanically, it cannot work without a complete rewrite of the temporary HP rules.

It actually does not show a misunderstanding of what HP represents.

HP are not just luck and skill. They are also damage. Otherwise, people wouldn't be dying when hit points go below zero. They would merely be unconscious. The warlord has the ability to heal actual physical damage in addition to inspiring. He can move a PC from dying to not dying. He has the ability to move a PC from dying to fully healthy and whole. That's the issue.

That's what makes Martial Healing a supernatural or mystical ability to heal.


And, nothing says that the rule couldn't be that temporary hit points are not lost during a short rest, but are lost during an extended rest. That wouldn't actually break the game since temporary hit points do not stack. With such a rule, martial healing of temporary hit points would work fine, it just wouldn't be the mega-healing that Warlords get today.

 

[Markn]

it cannot work without a complete rewrite of the temporary HP rules.

Totally disagree on this point. Temporary HP rules as is would be the generic rule. Redesigning martial healing to provide stackable healing would be an example of a specific rule that trumps the generic rule. As an Additional concept, its not too hard to imiagine any remaining temp HPs at the end of an encounter get converted into permanent ones.

Obviously these are just ideas off the top of my head, but the fact is, martial healing could work in this manner, quite easy, using the specific rule trumping the general rule therby passing any need for a rule rewrite.