Essentials nostalgia - the death of martial healing

[vagabundo]

It is obvious that Essentials will get DDI support and releasing subclasses for classes not in the hard copy would be logical.

I'd look there for support for the warlord.

I don't think that WOTC is gunning for martial healing, but it was probably not top of their list to include.

The WARLORD is dead; LONG LIVE THE WARLORD>>>>>

 

[DracoSuave]

Yup "it was", "used to be", "once had a position as", an iconic new class from the latest edition of D&D it was the intelligent fighter ... now its a non-essential unlikely to be seen by anyone joining the game new just seems pretty sad to me.

In other news, the PHB will still be in print and will be in the same section of the same store that newb bought D&D in.

 

[Neonchameleon]

Penalty box refers to the party starting in say a 3x2 or 3x3 square at the start of battle all adjacent to one another. In many modules with area or burst creatures, this can mean much of the party is massacred before moving if the creatures get surprise (DDE Dark Sun encounter 3 is an example of how terrible this is when designed with equally as poor creatures/surprise round).

I refer to this as Fireball Formation. My PCs don't do it any more if they have a choice (they bunched up like that a couple of sessions ago when in the open - and what was planned to be an easy encounter suddenly ... wasn't as the monsters mostly won initiative and four of them had close blast 3 attacks).

Going back to the Warlord, how would it work if you made the Warlord's healing an Immediate?

 

[Gradine]

The idea for this just struck me as a response to the "unconscious heroes" idea.

INSPIRING WORD
Your rallying cry allows your ally to shrug off a blow, helping them regain their confidence and composure.
Encounter (Special) * Martial, Healing
Special: You can use this power twice per encounter, but only
once per round. At 16th level, you can use inspiring word
three times per encounter.
Immediate Reaction
Close burst 5 (10 at 11th level, 15 at 21st level)
Trigger: You or an ally within range takes damage
Effect: The target may spend a healing surge and regain an additional 1d6 hit points. The amount of additional hit points regained is 2d6 at 6th
level, 3d6 at 11th level, 4d6 at 16th level, 5d6 at 21st level,
and 6d6 at 26th level.
Special: You may use this power even if you are otherwise unable to take immediate actions. If you are restricted to taking a single action per round, then this power counts as your one action.

This solves the whole "morale boost an unconscious hero back on their feet!" dilemma by allowing the Warlord to shout their buddy back on their feet before ever even get unconscious. I wouldn't be sure how to adjudicate the "does the guy still fall prone first" issue; I would guess the answer would be yes.

This reinforces the idea that the Warlord isn't magically mending wounds after the fact but is instead keeping his ally's fighting spirits up, even in the face of pain and damage. It also adds another level of strategy to the Warlord (as if it needed it) by forcing the Warlord to make snap decisions on when to use their Inspiring Words. You don't get to wait until your turn to hem and haw over it; you need to do it right then and there, with the understanding that you don't get anymore immediate actions until your next turn. I did toss in that last Special line, because otherwise Warlords will never use their immediate action powers at all.

Curious what you guys think about it.

 

[Black Knight Irios]

The idea for this just struck me as a response to the "unconscious heroes" idea.

INSPIRING WORD
Your rallying cry allows your ally to shrug off a blow, helping them regain their confidence and composure.
Encounter (Special) * Martial, Healing
Special: You can use this power twice per encounter, but only
once per round. At 16th level, you can use inspiring word
three times per encounter.
Immediate Reaction
Close burst 5 (10 at 11th level, 15 at 21st level)
Trigger: An ally within range takes damage
Effect: The target may spend a healing surge and regain an additional 1d6 hit points. The amount of additional hit points regained is 2d6 at 6th
level, 3d6 at 11th level, 4d6 at 16th level, 5d6 at 21st level,
and 6d6 at 26th level.
Special: You may use this power even if you have already taken an immediate action since your previous turn.

This solves the whole "morale boost an unconscious hero back on their feet!" dilemma by allowing the Warlord to shout their buddy back on their feet before ever even get unconscious. I wouldn't be sure how to adjudicate the "does the guy still fall prone first" issue; I would guess the answer would be yes.

This reinforces the idea that the Warlord isn't magically mending wounds after the fact but is instead keeping his ally's fighting spirits up, even in the face of pain and damage. It also adds another level of strategy to the Warlord (as if it needed it) by forcing the Warlord to make snap decisions on when to use their Inspiring Words. You don't get to wait until your turn to hem and haw over it; you need to do it right then and there, with the understanding that you don't get anymore immediate actions until your next turn. I did toss in that last Special line, because otherwise Warlords will never use their immediate action powers at all.

Curious what you guys think about it.

Warlord gets dazed: fail (This is the most important fail)
Warlord wants to heal himself (on his turn): fail (No self healing...bad)
Warlord wants to heal someone before they go further down to prevent boodied: fail


Martial Healing powers are there even if the warlord goes away. Fighters have them, rangers and rogues probably too. They can use them only on themselves but the "martial healing problem" remains at least for those that believe there is a problem with martial healing.

I personally don't mind martial healing. I personally don't think the martial healer must be craptastic in the healing department.

 

[Garthanos]

In other news, the PHB will still be in print and will be in the same section of the same store that newb bought D&D in.

Can that old book seem/remain attractive to the purchaser of the essentials? or will its seem that they already got that stuff... what do they need that other old thing for?

I guess actually that the PHBs all indeed are attractively packaged, and hardbound. And the Warlord will be an in your face element of the "that older book" to make it definite that the first phb has something they don't already have.

The build names are I guess distinct and the essentials should have a huge splat in it advertising the main books "For the full D&D experience..."

Maybe the sky hasnt fallen.... just yet.

 

[Garthanos]

I agree they (and the other martial classes) don't require any MORE support, but honestly I found the warlord to be the strongest of all the new 4e classes. Losing it from Essentials is a genuine loss. Especially when pretty much every other leader got the axe at the same time. The whole broadened leader concept of 4e was a definite advance. Its a real shame to see it essentially rolled back to its 1975 state of advancement.

QFT, essentially.

 

[UngainlyTitan]

Can that old book seem/remain attractive to the purchaser of the essentials? or will its seem that they already got that stuff... what do they need that other old thing for?

Pretty much the reason that many of us with DDI will still buy the Essentials. I would if I could afford it. Might buy the Rules Compendium anyway. That is, they want more options.

Essentials is designed to be a gateway to D&D and if it is successful in that some of the people that come on board will want to try out new stuff, just like the rest of us. So they will buy the hardbacked books.

I guess actually that the PHBs all indeed are attractively packaged, and hardbound. And the Warlord will be an in your face element of the "that older book" to make it definite that the first phb has something they don't already have.

The build names are I guess distinct and the essentials should have a huge splat in it advertising the main books "For the full D&D experience..."

Maybe the sky hasnt fallen.... just yet.

No it has not, or at least wait until you see the thing to believe so.
And I am pretty sure that Dragon, Dungeon and DDI will be pushed hard in essentials, that will lead to the DMG, PHB and MM series anyway as will as all the other splat books.

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

Pretty much the reason that many of us with DDI will still buy the Essentials. I would if I could afford it. Might buy the Rules Compendium anyway. That is, they want more options.

Essentials is designed to be a gateway to D&D and if it is successful in that some of the people that come on board will want to try out new stuff, just like the rest of us. So they will buy the hardbacked books.


No it has not, or at least wait until you see the thing to believe so.
And I am pretty sure that Dragon, Dungeon and DDI will be pushed hard in essentials, that will lead to the DMG, PHB and MM series anyway as will as all the other splat books.

Eh, we'll see about how many people go from Essentials to the older stuff. Obviously some people will. Some people will play with existing groups and want the old stuff, some will just pick it up because they are so into the game that they want everything there is. Some won't. They'll look at it and either not be sure if its something they can use or look at it and decide they don't need a book that overlaps what they have with Essentials for 7 out of 8 classes.

I do however suspect that the existing core books will go out of print. Businesses don't like the expense of carrying a bunch of SKUs. Retailers want their shelf space filled with the newest shiniest fastest selling products, etc. Keeping too many different things constantly in print was actually what caused TSR to go under. That doesn't mean these books will be IMPOSSIBLE to get (for a while and heck if you REALLY want one you can go out and get a 1e PHB, you just have to be willing to pay a lot). Its not at all unlikely new versions of warlord etc will show up either, and may even show up fairly quickly. We really don't know. The sky certainly isn't falling. OTOH the observation that Essentials has moved a step back in terms of leader support is still perfectly valid.

 

[KarinsDad]

It also makes the Warlord the most unquestionably useless healer in 4E if absolutely anything goes wrong. Unconsciousness is the most strong condition on a PC, especially when you bear in mind it grants CA and has helpless (-5 all defenses) for a massive +7 to hit for any creature. With increased damage from monsters no longer making their attacks a joke, you've just guaranteed a party member is dead if they go down (auras, zones, a coup de grace multiple attack power etc).

Nobody would play a Warlord if they're unable to do anything when PCs are in their most vulnerable and likely to die state.

I don't buy this.

There are so many different ways to heal in the game system, that if the Warlord could only hand out temporary hit points, that would be enough. There are items that heal, there are multiclass options for healing, there's the Heal skill. The number of handed out temporary hit points would be virtually the same, the only main differences would be unconsciousness and bloodied. If he did hand out temporary hit points though, it would still need to use a healing surge for the same number of points.

As is, the Warlord is one of the best leaders. This wouldn't change that too much and people would still play them.