Essentials Swashbuckling Slayer

[UngeheuerLich]

But i stand my point: if 2 or 3 damage at early epic per hit when you hit (without magic weapons) for 1d10+21 damage or so, you can totally do that and only strength and dexterity is switched, you don´t sacrifice anything.

Two weapon fighting, weapon focus, light blade expertise etc. will easily make trying to squeeze out 1 or extra damage pretty pathetic.

Also it should be noted, that you don´t have to take 20 dexterity at all. 18/16 is sufficent and it really does not matter which way around dexterity and strength is.

on the test build i just tried i had +27 to hit at level 22 without a magic weapon. Which is Level +5 exactly at monster to hit values. Count in a magic weapon and combat advantage and poised assault we speak about an extra +8 to hit, or +10 if you charge with berserkers fury.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

@ Destil: that was the first thing I checked and i was relieved that people at WotC did think about it.

Actually i would have been glad enough if it was just any ability to hit, strength to damage, like old 3.5 weapon finesse or the bardic combat virtuoso is.

I think it is perfect now as it is.

 

[Quickleaf]

This veers into house rules, but other comments got me thinking that you could swap out some class traits of either slayer or thief for a "grip" trait, similar to stances. Different grips/forms would allow you to treat your blade as having different qualities (eg. reach, brutal, defensive, feint multiple times, etc). There's some similarity to the e-fighter but I think you could look to the weapons lists for inspiration.

Basically the swashbuckler's weapon is less important than how he wields it.

Just a thought.

 

[Klaus]

Why does it have to be a slayer? A Slayer is a two-handed heavy-Armor high toughness Warrior ... nothing that fits a Swashbuckling Charakter.

A Rogue (Thief) or Ranger on the other hand would be a much better fit.

You're wrong about the Slayer. While it does gain proficiency with heavy armor, the Slayer's secondary stat is Dexterity. If your Dex modifier is +3 or more, you're better of with hide armor than with scale. And there are only two class features that rely on two-handed weapons, the first of which is at what, 7th level?

A Dex-focused Slayer might be a bit behind in the damage department, but he makes up for it with the ability to max a single stat for attack and defense. Dex 20 means +5 to hit, +7 to damage and +5 to AC and initiative. For this build, human is actually the best choice, since the +1 to F/R/W shore up a lower Fort, and the bonus feat makes up for the Melee Training need.

 

[Neonchameleon]

He's not a woodsman or outdoorsy type either. He's urbane and will spend his down time in some city tavern drinking, carousing, and wooing the ladies with tales of his exploits.

The only problem this leads to with a rapier-and-dagger scout (classic duellists' weapons of course) is on the Wilderness Knacks. The stances are easily refluffable (and seriously the giant killer stance sounds almost perfect as one of your choices). And the knacks - watchful rest fits and the animal handling, and a swashbuckler being good with horses (for stunts) is a classic. At higher levels that's two more you need from climbing, stealth, and alertness (just avoid the stealth one...). The utility powers you grab from classic ranger lists for more martial ones.

Dex-slayers start strong (Dex 18 + Melee Training = Str 18, Dex 14), but fall behind on the power curve. And you will start a bit behind by using a +3/1d8 weapon and fall slightly further behind at 7th. It's Good Enough ™ - although IMO the scout does better.

Edit: Hide vs Scale: Hide is +3+dex/-1ACP. Scale is +7/-1 speed. Which means you need a +4 dex mod for hide to match scale - and even then you're trading a point of armour check penalty for one of speed. +3 is where hide beats chain.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

You're wrong about the Slayer. While it does gain proficiency with heavy armor, the Slayer's secondary stat is Dexterity. If your Dex modifier is +3 or more, you're better of with hide armor than with scale. And there are only two class features that rely on two-handed weapons, the first of which is at what, 7th level?

A Dex-focused Slayer might be a bit behind in the damage department, but he makes up for it with the ability to max a single stat for attack and defense. Dex 20 means +5 to hit, +7 to damage and +5 to AC and initiative. For this build, human is actually the best choice, since the +1 to F/R/W shore up a lower Fort, and the bonus feat makes up for the Melee Training need.

Scale is better when your Dex bonus is +4 or higher, at least at some levels. EG level 1.

Also rmember that you need con 15 to improve hide, scale spec is easy because it relies on Dex. And I would still advise using strength and wis or char secondary because even with light blades you need solid strength for feat support. But it really depends on playstyle!

[MENTION=87792]Neonchameleon[/MENTION]:
no, dex 18, sterngth 16 is equal to 18 strength, 16 dex and they don´t fall behind if they don´t want. Look at my previous post!

 

[Neonchameleon]

Scale is better when your Dex bonus is +4 or higher, at least at some levels. EG level 1.

Also rmember that you need con 15 to improve hide, scale spec is easy because it relies on Dex. And I would still advise using strength and wis or char secondary because even with light blades you need solid strength for feat support. But it really depends on playstyle!

@Neonchameleon:
no, dex 18, sterngth 16 is equal to 18 strength, 16 dex and they don´t fall behind if they don´t want. Look at my previous post!

I'd hardly describe 18 strength, 16 dex as dex based. It's double prime statting - and always bumping what is one of the less useful stats for most purposes. I was pointing out that in terms of bonusses, 8 strength, 18 dex starts at the same level as 18 str, 14 dex. Just because 16/18/feat = 18/16 doesn't mean that 18/14 isn't the same as ?/18/feat.

 

[Prestidigitalis]

If your Dex modifier is +3 or more, you're better of with hide armor than with scale.

From the perspective of AC, yes, though I believe it's +5 or more, not +3.

But at level 19 the Slayer does get Armored Mobility (Resist All 10 + Dex mod against OAs while wearing heavy armor) which is pretty cool. And at level 24 the Slayer can ignore speed penalties from heavy armor, so that problem goes away.

So though it may seem odd on a Dex-based build, scale is still probably the better option. You even automatically qualify for Scale Specialization, whereas you may not qualify for Hide Specialization.