Ethics of Killing POWs

[Lord Zardoz]

Okay. I've seeking advice on what my character's reaction should be to a character who killed a POW last night in game.

...various details..

So. Any suggestions for what a LG character should do in response to killing the prisoner who gave us away?

I do not think killing a prisoner who is doing this sort of thing is entirely out of line alignment wise in this instance. It would fit with Lawful Good under the intent to protect your friends and to succeed in the mission.

However, I think this is a Table level problem, not a Character level problem.

Based on the details of the campaign you describe, it sounds like a train wreck waiting to happen due to character vs character conflict. Some groups are able to handle this kind of play, and some are not. Games where this sort of thing can be handled in game without causing problems do not usually result in posts of this nature. The tone of the post comes across as "this guy did something I am convinced is wrong, and I want backup that I am in the right here". That is never a good sign.

I think that the real problem here is that not everyone at the table has the same idea of what ought to go on in the game. In that case, the person who is in the wrong is the person going against the majority expectation. If everyone is playing mostly heroic good types and the one guy is playing an evil warlock, than he is in the wrong by creating a situation where he is acting contrary to the group. But if you are the only one playing a heroic type, than you are the one creating a problem for the group. As I said, such play is not its self a problem as long as everyone at the table is ok with it.

 

[JDJblatherings]

That is complete and utter crap. The lizardman had been subdued and was unconscious. He's helpless. What the warlock did was murder a helpless individual.

Now if the lizardman had a weapon and was fighting his way out when he died, completely different story. He had a duty to resist his captors and try to break free, which explains why he cried out for his nearby allies.

agreed, incapacitiating him was adequate to neutralize any threat he may have posed druing the ensuing fight. Are eldritch blasts noisy? If so the warlock is a detriment to the party if everyone was trying to hide.

 

[krissbeth]

I'm in this party.

It kind of came off as a loose cannon move. The way dude is playing CN makes my CN character look downright good. It's embarrassing. No in-game reaction from me because I was captured earlier. But as both a player and character, I see that sort of move in really poor ethical taste. I have no idea if eldritch blast makes noise, but if so, poor tactical move as well. :\

In all seriousness, we're a largely good/true neutral-with-fairly-good-intentions party. I think it's something that will need to be addressed once the whole party makes it out of the war zone. Just in a "What are your objectives here again? Because we're kind of trying to save the world," type of way.

 

[roguerouge]

However, I think this is a Table level problem, not a Character level problem.

That's possible. And it might be my character that needs to go as much as his does.

When I created the character, there was a monk and a paladin. Three out of seven PCs were lawful. Then we had a TPK and some PCs came back and some players changed their characters. Now I'm playing the only lawful character. It's challenging, but it may prove wearisome. I really trust the DM and some of the players to let me know when it's ceasing to be fun. So changing the party AGAIN is a last resort move, but a possible one. The narrative matters more than that rather significant inconvenience.

That having been said, it seems like the options have been to ignore it, that it's justified, to report his character to the proper authorities, or to boot one or both characters from the party. Any other solutions? Any way to make these solutions work?

 

[Stalker0]

first, lets remember that CN is the most evil alignment in the game, because for many its a license to do anything.

Second, I think the warlock is okay on this one. The guy tried to break free and signal his friends, endangering the party. While he was "knocked out" in game unless you did a heal check you can't be sure he's actually out, meaning he still might try to signal his friends. Definitely not a good act, but I would let it slide to promote party unity and get on with the adventure.

With a standard dnd game, you have to let real world morals slide a bit. We are dealing with nonhuman creatures, often in areas that have no laws, and you are constantly faced with danger. Further, unless your in a military game, there's no military code to consider either. While a LG paladin should still be lawful good, I wouldn't try to be oh holier than thou for every single action that's a little off key, because you don't want party infighting to be the norm.

 

[Doug McCrae]

I think you're in danger of falling into 'alignment first, character second' thinking, and the warlock's player may have the same problem. Don't worry too much about whether it's the Lawful Good thing to do or not, just consider: a) what would be most fun for the game and b) what your character would do.

It looks to me as if the warlock's player was just trying to do something a bit mad, to show he's CN. Once the lizardman had been subdued there was no immediate reason to kill him. The real issue isn't killing PoWs but acting without consulting the group when there was plenty of time to do so.

That said rpgs in general suffer from unrealistically high moral expectations. It's very easy to pontificate about what's right and wrong for safe, well-fed C21-ites sitting round a table or on a message board. When you're in a life and death situation inside enemy territory, morality is a luxury item you can often ill afford. That goes double considering the victim wasn't even human or demi-human.

 

[Ed_Laprade]

That said rpgs in general suffer from unrealistically high moral expectations. It's very easy to pontificate about what's right and wrong for safe, well-fed C21-ites sitting round a table or on a message board. When you're in a life and death situation inside enemy territory, morality is a luxury item you can often ill afford. That goes double considering the victim wasn't even human or demi-human.

Absolutely! You are not, repeat NOT, playing 21st century soldiers. You are playing a scruffy bunch of mercenaries out to make a buck (oh yeah, and save the world). So, ask the GM, just exactly what are the Rules of War hereabout? That's something he should have told you the instant you took a prisoner.

For myself, you are behind enemy lines and your POW tried to lead you into a trap that you know about. I'd have slit his throat without a second thought. You don't have the luxury to be dragging about someone who's trying to see you done in. (Which, of course, is what he ought to be doing.) You should have left him bound, gagged and unconscious somewhere that it was unlikely he'd be found for a long time.

As for Mr. I'm-now-a-Demon, there should have been no party discussion. At that point you kill him or die trying. Period.

But, as others have said, this looks more like a problem at the gaming table rather than just slippery alignments.

 

[frankthedm]

That is complete and utter crap. The lizardman had been subdued and was unconscious. He's helpless. What the warlock did was murder a helpless individual.

The warlock executed an enemy who proved he was untrustable as a prisoner. The lizard got lucky the first time and then pushed his luck even attempting leading his captors into an ambush. Thats what he was executed for.

He had a duty to resist his captors and try to break free, which explains why he cried out for his nearby allies.

By following that duty he chose death.

 

[Klaus]

The warlock executed an enemy who proved he was untrustable as a prisoner. The lizard got lucky the first time and then pushed his luck even attempting leading his captors into an ambush. Thats what he was executed for.

By following that duty he chose death.

QFT.

Even a Paladin can execute a traitor. It is far more humane to give a foe a clean, painless execution than a painful (and probably outmatched) fight against a PC.

 

[S'mon]

Background: The POW was a lizardfolk who we had captured and healed. We were raiding their compound during a time of war to rescue our prisoners. The lizardfolk agreed drew us a map of their compound and to take us to the shaman, who cared for the prisoners. He took us in a direction in which we knew there was a trap, but which he insisted wasn't a trap. Our scout took off his gag to argue with him about it, at which point he started screaming our location to any guards who might overhear. We knock him out. The guards are coming. Then our CN warlock blasts the unconscious prisoner with an eldritch blast.

At the point he was killed, he wasn't 'your prisoner' - he was an unconscious hostile enemy lizardman. The same morality applies as to what you do with Sleeped enemies. If you're happy to CDG Sleeped or Paralysed enemies you shouldn't be having moral problems with the Warlock's action.