Euro 2004 Football discussion

[Fester]

When the match started, I wasn't too bothered one way or the other about who would win. But when Deco started launching himself at the ground like a scud missile to try and con the referee into getting a penalty in the first half, it really irritated me and I really hoped the Greeks would win. They did

I mean, that's a really crappy way to try and win a major trophy.

Congrats to Greece... here's hoping the Olympics are as successful for them.

 

[MonsterMash]

Congrats to the Greeks, not a classic game, but how many tournament finals are?

 

[johnsemlak]

Well, the Greeks certainly deserved it, despite all the naysayers. IT may have not been the most exciting football but you had to respect their discipline and execution.

 

[barsoomcore]

Please, when you barely can complete a pass, or shoot on the goal and have to rely on a single trick to score I don't call that perfect. The greek has one of the most pathetic offense I ever saw in an international team.

Aw, is someone a little bitter?

You go back through your replay library and find me a more perfect corner than either of those last two nailed by the Greek team. Oh, but I guess you classify a corner kick as a "trick", right? Right.

Their coach devised a brilliant, if simple, system (clog up the middle and don't allow breakaways on the outside, keep your wingers deep to grab clearing shots) and gathered a group of good enough players who had the confidence, the brains and the determination to stick by that system, to maintain it through two halves and extra time, to never lose their cool and to not be intimidated by a bunch of "stars".

Or maybe you think they shouldn't bother PLAYING the games, just award the trophy to whoever they THINK deserves it? It would certainly reduce expenses.

I remember one of the plays in the Czech game that really drove home how clearly these Greeks knew what they were doing -- Baros was driving deep down the right wing, and faked out the defender. He was past and just about to cross into the penalty zone with no one between him and the goalie -- exactly how he'd scored against Denmark -- and the defender turned around and just tackled him. Grabbed him around the waist and threw him to the ground.

Sure, he drew a foul (not a yellow card, if I remember correctly) -- but it was a smart, head's-up play. The Greeks weren't afraid of a free kick -- their defence was unbreachable on those -- but Baros with room to move was almost certainly a goal. The defenceman had been beat, cold, by Baros, and without losing a beat he saw the situation, understood the implications of what he was seeing and took a simple action that might just have saved the game.

That's smart football. That's great field awareness and a perfect understanding of the game -- if he'd waited another step Baros would have been in the penalty zone and THEN things would have been bad.

And that's why I loved watching the Greeks play.

Sure it's fun when the big stars, who you know are capable of exploding out of nowhere, do exactly that and turn a game around with some dramatic, flashy, brilliant play. Every time a Zidane or a Figo or a Beckham gets the ball, you feel a little rush, thinking THIS time they're going to turn it on. And that's exciting. It was exciting watching Baros' goals against Denmark -- but there's other joys in sport, too.

I don't even know who that Greek defender was. He didn't do anything fancy or complicated -- he just did exactly the right thing at exactly the right moment. Which is what the Greek team was all about. Hurray for them.

 

[DarkMaster]

Aw, is someone a little bitter?

Yes very

You go back through your replay library and find me a more perfect corner than either of those last two nailed by the Greek team. Oh, but I guess you classify a corner kick as a "trick", right? Right.

Absolutly I could teach a dog to do it.

Their coach devised a brilliant, if simple, system (clog up the middle and don't allow breakaways on the outside, keep your wingers deep to grab clearing shots) and gathered a group of good enough players who had the confidence, the brains and the determination to stick by that system, to maintain it through two halves and extra time, to never lose their cool and to not be intimidated by a bunch of "stars".

True but if everybody was playing like that nobody would be watching football. A few years back in Canada they had the same problem in the NHL, a coach invented a great defensive system that allow his mediocre team to win the Stanley cup, the year after everybody was using it and the game became very boring to watch. Profesionnal players are supposed to give a show. But Oh it's true most Greek player couldn't be called "pro"
[/QUOTE]

Or maybe you think they shouldn't bother PLAYING the games, just award the trophy to whoever they THINK deserves it? It would certainly reduce expenses.

Not true, Czech, Portugal, England and Netherland were all playing awesome soccer and were all much more deserving than the greek. The greek were the most boring team of the tournament and lowered in my opinion the quality of the show.

I remember one of the plays in the Czech game that really drove home how clearly these Greeks knew what they were doing -- Baros was driving deep down the right wing, and faked out the defender. He was past and just about to cross into the penalty zone with no one between him and the goalie -- exactly how he'd scored against Denmark -- and the defender turned around and just tackled him. Grabbed him around the waist and threw him to the ground.

Wow, when you talk about finesse and sportmanship you can count on the greek, this is european football not american football.

Sure, he drew a foul (not a yellow card, if I remember correctly) -- but it was a smart, head's-up play. The Greeks weren't afraid of a free kick -- their defence was unbreachable on those -- but Baros with room to move was almost certainly a goal. The defenceman had been beat, cold, by Baros, and without losing a beat he saw the situation, understood the implications of what he was seeing and took a simple action that might just have saved the game.

That's smart football. That's great field awareness and a perfect understanding of the game -- if he'd waited another step Baros would have been in the penalty zone and THEN things would have been bad.

I think you are analysing too much, was desperate to stop him and lucky

And that's why I loved watching the Greeks play.

We surely don't have the same definition of interesting game.

Sure it's fun when the big stars, who you know are capable of exploding out of nowhere, do exactly that and turn a game around with some dramatic, flashy, brilliant play. Every time a Zidane or a Figo or a Beckham gets the ball, you feel a little rush, thinking THIS time they're going to turn it on. And that's exciting. It was exciting watching Baros' goals against Denmark -- but there's other joys in sport, too.

What other joys, when you play what count his winning. When you watch and or pay to see a game you want to have something for your money or the time you spend in front of your TV. If every team in the league was playing like that you would see game attendance go down the drain and the various league would create rule to prevent this type of game, in hockey that is what happened.

I don't even know who that Greek defender was. He didn't do anything fancy or complicated -- he just did exactly the right thing at exactly the right moment. Which is what the Greek team was all about. Hurray for them.

Well his buddy working with him on his farm probably do.

 

[DarkMaster]

As much as I hate saying that 'might makes right', if Czech Republic, Portugal and France were such better teams than Greece, they should have demonstrated it by winning. And defensive strategy wasn't used to compensate thier lack of talent, but to exploit their different kind of talent. Otherwise you can play defensive as much as you want, and still go home (as many other teams did). A smart coach knows what kind of play makes his team give its best. It may be boring for you, but they're there to try to win, not to please the public.

And I don't think that the so called 'champions' worry much about being stars. Heck if they really did, you'd think they'd really spend time practicing their shots. But if you were a player, and a sportswear firm came to you offering several millions to do a spot, would you NOT take them? Honest? What this tournament demonstrated is just that sportswear firms have poor judgement in choosing 'champions'. The field makes champions, not ads. It would be nice for a time if people (and, more important, the coaches) watched the games, and then judged who the real champions are, instead of watching the ads and then be disappointed in normal players who just took the money like every sane person I think would do.

Stars are people who fill up stadium. People love to see all the amazing moves and trick they can pull out. In the end it is all about the money. Other than the greek no one would pay to see them play, they are too boring. Look at Real Madrid with all their big names, even if they don't win, people will travel continent to have the chance to see them in action. To dream when beckham or Zidane do a perfect free kick or when Ronaldo makes an incredible dribble followed by a unstopable shot. They won't get excited by the fact that the defencement was at the right place at the right moment and did a simple kick to clear the zone.

And when I watch the Euro I don't want to see that I want to dream. If I want to see the greek I can just wait a few years and go see my son play in his preschool team.

 

[Lichtenhart]

I've got a really simple question for you, DarkMaster: what Figo, Beckham, Totti, Raul, Del Piero, Trezeguet, Davids (I could go on and on, but'll stop here), what all these people showed at this Euro makes you think their reputation as stars, as people who fill up stadiums, is deserved?
Did they show you all the amazing moves and trick they can pull out?
You say Greece was boring - was Italy better? or Germany? or France? or England?
You didn't enjoy this Euro - and you're perfectly entitled to your opinion - but was that really Greece's fault?
I don't know hockey well enough, and I dunno what changes could be made to football to make it more spectacular as you'd like it, but did the Greece do wrong in trying to stick to a game system that allowed them to win, Since they had no Ronaldo, Zidane or Beckham, and they couldn't make one for the occasion? Should they have just left room for the stars?
This Euro, and the greek victory, failed to entertain you. But five people posted in this thread to congratulate them, probably because they did have been entertained.
You like to see players that are able to do wonderful things when given the ball, other people may like to see wonderful goalkeepers (and Greece had one of them), or teams that really play as teams, or midfielders that can run forever, or impassable defenders. Other simply want to believe players that never give up, not even a minute before the penalties. It's not likely you can please everyone. Not everyone likes Real Madrid either. But in the end football is a sport. In a sport there are rules, and one should try to do his best within them. The greeks did. They won. If the others were better, than it is their fault they did not do their best.

 

[DarkMaster]

I've got a really simple question for you, DarkMaster: what Figo, Beckham, Totti, Raul, Del Piero, Trezeguet, Davids (I could go on and on, but'll stop here), what all these people showed at this Euro makes you think their reputation as stars, as people who fill up stadiums, is deserved?
Did they show you all the amazing moves and trick they can pull out?
You say Greece was boring - was Italy better? or Germany? or France? or England?
You didn't enjoy this Euro - and you're perfectly entitled to your opinion - but was that really Greece's fault?
I don't know hockey well enough, and I dunno what changes could be made to football to make it more spectacular as you'd like it, but did the Greece do wrong in trying to stick to a game system that allowed them to win, Since they had no Ronaldo, Zidane or Beckham, and they couldn't make one for the occasion? Should they have just left room for the stars?
This Euro, and the greek victory, failed to entertain you. But five people posted in this thread to congratulate them, probably because they did have been entertained.
You like to see players that are able to do wonderful things when given the ball, other people may like to see wonderful goalkeepers (and Greece had one of them), or teams that really play as teams, or midfielders that can run forever, or impassable defenders. Other simply want to believe players that never give up, not even a minute before the penalties. It's not likely you can please everyone. Not everyone likes Real Madrid either. But in the end football is a sport. In a sport there are rules, and one should try to do his best within them. The greeks did. They won. If the others were better, than it is their fault they did not do their best.

Well I want to clarify something. I enjoyed the Euro but not the greek games that and the fact that yesterday night I couldn't sleep because a lot of greek lives in my neigbourhood. I don't care for the big names as much as I care for fast paced games. I remember surprising myself when I watch the US in the last Euro, I couldn't like the american. Well they had no particular star in the team but they were great to watch, they were not particularly skillfull on an individual level (probably better than the greek taugh) but were able to build strong and dangerous actions against any country, they even beat Mexico.

Towards the end of the tournament I was cheering for the US and was extremely dissapointed to see them lose against Germany (they should have won this one but that is another story). A few months before that I would have laugh at the chances of the US and didn't even wanted to waste time watching what I taugh would be a pathetic team, same for the greek only difference in their case I was right.

The greek were barely able to set one offensive action correctly and relied on trick that they practice a hundred time to score a goal and then play boring defense for the rest of the game. The Italian use that strategy but they are talented their counterattack are usually well played and well set same for the English. And when they are hard pressed they can switch their game and go in offence as we saw it against Bulgaria(or was it Latvia?). But with the greek it is always the same boring strategy, notice how the Russian defeated them they scored first. The greek passing game is one of the most horrible I ever saw and is not IMHO at an international level of play.

I don't need superstar, the US in the last WC were a good example of not extremely talented players, but very exciting team to watch.

 

[DarkMaster]

One positive thing came out from thisrofessional player are paid too much for what they deliver.

When you are paid millions of Euro per years, you should give everything you got on the field especially when it is for your country. Money not being an issue for most of them, these type of competition should bring them an even greater challenge, the pride of representing their country.

That is what drove the Greeks and that is why they won. But I still maintain that technically most of the 11 greek starter didn't have their place on an International field.

 

[Capellan]

Absolutly I could teach a dog to do it.

You can teach a dog to perfectly flight a ball from the corner into his teammate in the middle, and also teach it to rise above a world-class defence and put the ball past an international goal-keeper? Maybe you should be coaching the Greeks instead of the guy that just made them European champions.

The greek has one of the most pathetic offense I ever saw in an international team

You don't like the way they play, that's fine - but don't denigrate their achievement. They beat Portugal (twice!), France and the Czechs. This is not a single, fluke result: this is a well-planned campaign that three world-class sides should have found an answer for, and didn't. In the four matches they played against those sides, the Greeks scored five goals and conceded just one. By any measure, that's a remarkable achievement.

Let me know when your dogs can do that.