Explain it like I'm 5....what exactly has Manchester City done which is so heinous?

GreyLord

Legend
So, Manchester City's Club (Football) has been under investigation and was charged a few weeks ago. Today I read that some are hypothesizing that it's trophies could be taken away, it could be kicked out of the Premier League, or even have it as drastic as being kicked out from playing at all!!!

I tried finding out all the information I can, but the worst I can find is that they may have been paying players more than others could have and they did this by paying players under the table (which is illegal, and what people would consider cheating. It's basically paying them far more than they would otherwise and thus other teams cannot compete in obtaining elite players).

However, that's just money there.

The wins would still be legitimately won. It wouldn't be cheating on the field itself, just cheating financially to get the better players on the team.

However, it LOOKS like Manchester City actually didn't have the budget that some other teams have....so...they wouldn't even have the money to pay as well as some of the others for that "greatest of greatest" teams, even if they wanted to. Though they may be able to pay some players better, other teams which were spending more could have outspent them overall...

So, I get the accusations in financial fraud and such (and not reporting payments, payments under the table, illegal payments) and such, but I'm not seeing (due to the size of their budget vs. others in the league...unless there's more we don't know) how they could be kicked out of the League for cheating. I'd even say stripping their trophies from them could be a stretch...but a LOT of people seem to think this is a possibility.

So, for anyone who understands where or why on this...if you could explain it to me...
 

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Ryujin

Legend
Not a Footie guy, but it seems pretty basic.

Odds are that there are spending caps in place, in an effort to keep things competitive. It then becomes an issue of building a team that will work together well, with coaches that can get the best out of them, all within that spending limit. If you're enticing the best players to sign with you by paying them more over and above that limit, then you're competing unfairly. That would be worthy of stripping trophies.
 

Snarf Zagyg

Notorious Liquefactionist
Supporter
So, I get the accusations in financial fraud and such (and not reporting payments, payments under the table, illegal payments) and such, but I'm not seeing (due to the size of their budget vs. others in the league...unless there's more we don't know) how they could be kicked out of the League for cheating. I'd even say stripping their trophies from them could be a stretch...but a LOT of people seem to think this is a possibility.

So, for anyone who understands where or why on this...if you could explain it to me...

So the reason people are taking this so seriously has to do with intent (the old mens rea). The charges, if true, are that Man City has been knowingly violating the rules since 2009, and have blocked and stonewalled investigations ... and have continued to violate the rules while blocking and stonewalling.

That's ... not great.

As for punishment? Well, Everton got docked 10 points for a single, unknowing and minor violation of the rules (reduced to 6 points after appeal). This is supposedly a scheme, over 15 years, that impacted the game and the Premier League and that Man City has allegedly continued (while refusing to cooperate) since the investigation started SIX YEARS ago, and there are 115 specific breaches.
 

Dannyalcatraz

Schmoderator
Staff member
Supporter
giphy.gif

(I know it’s not Man City, but…)
 


aco175

Legend
As for punishment? Well, Everton got docked 10 points for a single, unknowing and minor violation of the rules (reduced to 6 points after appeal). This is supposedly a scheme, over 15 years, that impacted the game and the Premier League and that Man City has allegedly continued (while refusing to cooperate) since the investigation started SIX YEARS ago, and there are 115 specific breaches.
This is metric football where breaking rules are only 6/10th of actual rules. In imperial football we assume everyone is cheating or they are not trying.
 

Morrus

Well, that was fun
Staff member
I googled it and everything I saw looked like it was something to do with rules regarding commercial sponsorships.

It looks like it's an independent commission, not an actual court case? Basically an organisation investigating a member for breaching its financial rules.

Dunno. Looks complicated. My knowledge of football is close to zero.
 

Snarf Zagyg

Notorious Liquefactionist
Supporter
I googled it and everything I saw looked like it was something to do with rules regarding commercial sponsorships.

It looks like it's an independent commission, not an actual court case? Basically an organisation investigating a member for breaching its financial rules.

Dunno. Looks complicated. My knowledge of football is close to zero.

If you had to boil it down, the gist of it is this-

While soccer (football) doesn't have "caps" like we do in America, there are stringent rules regarding financial disclosures, and in the P.L., requirements that you don't spend more than you are fairly earning (subject to lots of legalese, because of course).

The evidence/allegations are that Man City, since 2009, has been falsifying the financial data and engaging in all sorts of shenanigans in order to funnel money to the team far in excess of what they were bringing in; in effect, allowing the owner and affiliated entities of the owner to dump money into the team for players, coaches, etc., that other teams weren't allowed to do.

Which has been kind of an open secret if you pay attention to the money spent (even disclosed) and the players they have acquired.

I would say that, like most things, it's not just the crime, it's the coverup. The past six years of stonewalling and lying to investigators will likely be the reason (assuming the allegations are accurate) that Man City gets a major punishment.

But we will see! I will defer to someone with more expertise on this ... you know, someone who doesn't default to calling it soccer. :)
 

Morrus

Well, that was fun
Staff member
If you had to boil it down, the gist of it is this-

While soccer (football) doesn't have "caps" like we do in America, there are stringent rules regarding financial disclosures, and in the P.L., requirements that you don't spend more than you are fairly earning (subject to lots of legalese, because of course).

The evidence/allegations are that Man City, since 2009, has been falsifying the financial data and engaging in all sorts of shenanigans in order to funnel money to the team far in excess of what they were bringing in; in effect, allowing the owner and affiliated entities of the owner to dump money into the team for players, coaches, etc., that other teams weren't allowed to do.

Which has been kind of an open secret if you pay attention to the money spent (even disclosed) and the players they have acquired.

I would say that, like most things, it's not just the crime, it's the coverup. The past six years of stonewalling and lying to investigators will likely be the reason (assuming the allegations are accurate) that Man City gets a major punishment.

But we will see! I will defer to someone with more expertise on this ... you know, someone who doesn't default to calling it soccer. :)
As far as I can make out we’re not talking about an actual crime here, just violation of the organisation’s (FiFA? whoever… I don’t know football things) financial rules?
 

Snarf Zagyg

Notorious Liquefactionist
Supporter
As far as I can make out we’re not talking about an actual crime here, just violation of the organisation’s (FiFA? whoever… I don’t know football things) financial rules?

Yes!* But (bear with me, IIRC you're not big into professional sports) the "financial rules" are more like ... serious cheating.

To give you an idea-

A league says you can only use $100m to pay all your players and coaches.
11 teams follow the rule exactly.
1 teams spends $1 BILLION dollars to acquire all the best players from around the world, and then says, "What? We only spent $100m, just like the rest of you. Now, stop complaining while we celebrate our victory!"

That's what it's about. The financial rules are about balance- so it's not just "financial misdeeds," it's about game integrity.

Make more sense?


*I am assuming. I don't know enough to tell you if there are separate crimes that could be charged. In the US, there were criminal investigations related to a similar issue that popped up, but that's not the UK.
 

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