Evasion - WORST FEAT EVER!!!

[DM-Rocco]

Okay, in a normal game, not so bad, but in low magic G&G, really [edited by admin] stupid.

AAARRRGGGHHHH!!!!

Okay, I'm done ranting, here is my question.

Does evasion only work on reflex saves that offer half damage on a successful save?

I know that is how it is worded, but here is the senerio.

I triggered a trap, I have to make three reflex saving throws. I made two and failed one. The saving throw wasn't for half damage, it was for all or none.

This isn't really relavent, but the world is low magic (and actually our first trap in two and a half years so hardly any reflex save stuff to begin with) and this is the only time I remotely had a chance to use evasion and because of the way it is worded, it looks like it is worthless overall.

So, two questions:

1) If it is a all or nothing save, would evasion come into play?

2) In a world where everything, or just about everything that requires a reflex save, is all or nothing, would you as a DM (or you as a player politely request of a DM) to make evasion a tad more useful? If so, how?

Thanks for your time

 

[werk]

Evasion is a feat now?

 

[Voadam]

So, two questions:

1) If it is a all or nothing save, would evasion come into play?

2) In a world where everything, or just about everything that requires a reflex save, is all or nothing, would you as a DM (or you as a player politely request of a DM) to make evasion a tad more useful? If so, how?

Thanks for your time

1 no. Improved evasion would, but not evasion.

2 If everything then I would ask him to let it have some effect, like falling into a pit but catching onto the ledge and requiring help to get out.

 

[diaglo]

bah, everyone knows that skill focus at +2 in the 2000ed was the worst feat EVAR.

 

[nittanytbone]

First, evasion is not a feat. It is a class function of rogues, high level rangers, monks, and a few other non-core classes.

Here's the actual text:

At 2nd level or higher if a monk makes a successful Reflex saving throw against an attack that normally deals half damage on a successful save, she instead takes no damage. Evasion can be used only if a monk is wearing light armor or no armor. A helpless monk does not gain the benefit of evasion.

Historically, the idea of evasion dates back to at least 1E AD&D. Monks gained an evasion ability at mid levels, and then improved evasion at high levels.

1) If it is a all or nothing save, would evasion come into play?

According to the above text, no. Dragon Breath (save for 1/2)? Evasion works. Trap (save or fall into a pit)? Evasion does nothing.

2) In a world where everything, or just about everything that requires a reflex save, is all or nothing, would you as a DM (or you as a player politely request of a DM) to make evasion a tad more useful? If so, how?

I might give the "Lightning Reflexes" feat for free, granting a +2 bonus to reflex saves. Alternatively, I might give "Dive for Cover" (Complete Adventurer, I think) as a free feat, which lets you retry a failed reflex save, but with you ending up prone.

However, giving out Lightning Reflexes for free is VERY nice synergy with evasion and improved evasion later on.

Alternatively, I might just remove the evasion ability and replace it with a free bonus feat at the player's option (i.e., they can choose evasion or a feat).

 

[Piratecat]

Please don't use 'gay' as a pejorative here. We don't permit it, even with disclaimers explaining what you're trying to get across. I edited the post accordingly.

 

[Nail]

2) In a world where everything, or just about everything that requires a reflex save, is all or nothing, would you as a DM (or you as a player politely request of a DM) to make evasion a tad more useful? If so, how?:

Evasion is not a feat. It's a class ability.

Evasion is one of many class abilities. The class does not depend on its utility. In some campaigns certain class abilities shine, while others lay in a moldering heap. That's just the way it goes. (shrug) I'm reminded of the Turn Undead ability; in some campaigns its crucial, in others it's worthless.

To respond to your question (and laying pejoratives aside, please): Ask the DM to incorporate more effects that allow a Reflex save for half. It's just that simple.

BTW, it may be your DM is inexperienced. Using a "low magic" campaign is an indicator of such a thing. So....gently help your DM out.

 

[Bad Paper]

I dunno, Piratecat, evasion makes me pretty happy. One might even say...joyous and gay! My wizard even dipped into two levels of rogue for it!

I agree that evasion makes a bad feat. If your campaign has houseruled it into featdom, then yeah, everyone will have it, thus no one will throw fireballs, essentially making evasion worthless.....

...which would mean the only time you were making Reflex saves would be against things like traps. Gosh, wouldn't it be swell for there to be something like Trap Sense to give you a bonus against traps? Man, someone should really talk to those designers.

 

[DM-Rocco]

Please don't use 'gay' as a pejorative here. We don't permit it, even with disclaimers explaining what you're trying to get across. I edited the post accordingly.

BAH!!!

It's just the way I talk, but I understand.

Will do.

 

[werk]

Evasion is a gateway ability. Repeated use can easily lead to the use of harder abilities, like Imp. Evasion.

Joking aside, that's the way I view it. Improved Evasion is the sweetness, but it's too good for lower levels, so you get Imp. Evasion lite first. Not nearly as useful, but a little useful and an effective placeholder until Imp. Evasion kicks in.