Evasion - WORST FEAT EVER!!!

[moritheil]

Mettle is what you want.

 

[Nail]

Improved Evasion is the sweetness, but it's too good for lower levels, so you get Imp. Evasion lite first. Not nearly as useful, but a little useful and an effective placeholder until Imp. Evasion kicks in.

You might have missed the OP's question, werk. Allow me to re-state:

"If you never run into effects that deal half-damage on a successful Reflex save, the Evasion class ability is worthless. Any suggestions for a player in such a situation?"

(How'd I do, DM-Rocco?)

 

[DM-Rocco]

Mettle is what you want.

eh?

What is mettle?

Anyway, I know it is a class ability. But I don't make the distinction in grammer between class abilities and feats cause they are one and the same to me. It is just a feat that you can only get by taking a number of class levels. Kind of like Weapon specialization is a feat, but you can only take it by taking 4 levels of fighter.

It just seems like a wasted CLASS ABILITY (or feat if you are using Monte Cook books ). In a normal game were reflex save spells are commonly cast and damage for traps is commonly save for half, it is a really good feat. In a low magic world where such things don't come up that much, or in this case at all, my poor rogue feels slighted.

What really makes me mad is that I didn't add my +2 for sense trap to the save. That would have made the save for sure.

 

[Nail]

Mettle is another class ability.

It is like Evasion. If you make a save against an effect that has a reduced effect on a successful Fort or Will save, you completely avoid the effect. It's in a few PrCs, like Pious Templar.

 

[Nail]

In a low magic world where such things don't come up that much, or in this case at all, my poor rogue feels slighted.

I have a very small violin over here.....

 

[moritheil]

It's also in at least one base class, the hexblade.

 

[Nail]

.....right. I'd forgotten. Other base classes? (Maybe from the Minatures Handbook?)

Also, didn't part of Mettle get turned into a feat? Hmmmm....where did I see that, PHII?

 

[moritheil]

.....right. I'd forgotten. Other base classes? (Maybe from the Minatures Handbook?)

Also, didn't part of Mettle get turned into a feat? Hmmmm....where did I see that, PHII?

Not that I know of. PHBII has a feat that means one no longer fails fort saves on a roll of 1, and can use Con for Will saves.

 

[DM-Rocco]

You might have missed the OP's question, werk. Allow me to re-state:

"If you never run into effects that deal half-damage on a successful Reflex save, the Evasion class ability is worthless. Any suggestions for a player in such a situation?"

(How'd I do, DM-Rocco?)

Yeah, that is it exactly.

It is a fun adventure he has us in, and I am not just saying that cause I am e-mailing a link to the DM , it is just that nothing that I can recall so far for the almost three years it has been running is reflex for half. I might be wrong about that, there may have been one or two things that I didn't know about but made the save anyway.

We have an elementalist homebrew class for example that can do rituals for sick amounts of damage (which if you know anything about G&G it doesn't take a lot to be considered sick amounts of damage). THe bottom line is that everything in range take damage and it is either no save or if there is a save, it is for none.

I did talk to him about that point once and said that no save spells were usually higher levels spells but it did have draw backs like a very long casting time, so I could see his point.

He is usually into feed back and may alter things if it makes sense.

I couldn't just go to him and tell him to change his traps because I feel I have a useless ability, but I could go to him and say that I thought it over, I think this ability is useless of extremely limited, here are a few suggestions, what do you think?

He might go for giving lightning reflexs of a bonus feat.

Okay, here is Improved evasion and evasion from the SRD:

EVASION AND IMPROVED EVASION
These extraordinary abilities allow the target of an area attack to leap or twist out of the way. Rogues and monks have evasion and improved evasion as class features, but certain other creatures have these abilities, too.
If subjected to an attack that allows a Reflex save for half damage, a character with evasion takes no damage on a successful save.
As with a Reflex save for any creature, a character must have room to move in order to evade. A bound character or one squeezing through an area cannot use evasion.
As with a Reflex save for any creature, evasion is a reflexive ability. The character need not know that the attack is coming to use evasion.
Rogues and monks cannot use evasion in medium or heavy armor. Some creatures with the evasion ability as an innate quality do not have this limitation.
Improved evasion is like evasion, except that even on a failed saving throw the character takes only half damage.

So, if Improved evasion is the same but you only take half damage on a failed saving throw, then that too would be worthless in this game since it too doesn't meet the critiria of save for half?

So I would have to go to him and propse something
Evasion:If subjected to an attack that allows a Reflex save, a character with evasion takes no damage on a successful save.

but that really doesn't do anything cause a successful save alread eliminates the damage so you would have to do something like:
Evasion:If subjected to an attack that allows a Reflex save, a character with evasion takes no damage on a successful save and on a failed save take half.

But then improved evasion would not be a factor so you would have to reduce the damage by half again so improved evasion is worth it.

Anyway, any other ideas?

 

[DM-Rocco]

Not that I know of. PHBII has a feat that means one no longer fails fort saves on a roll of 1, and can use Con for Will saves.

OOOO, that would be great!!!

We got Wisdom drained and in a low magic world, I don't think we are getting it back. Fort as a will save would rock. What is that feat called?