even encounter?

[duhtroll]

I'm not being a jerk here, but the answer to your question is "because I have a Monster Manual."

Understand we were fleeing the room before any discussion of the creature's stats took place. (as the big "HUH? WTF was THAT about?" took place. The game is over, so it doesn't matter. I use the MM frequently for monster summoning, so I have it handy.

My point was that we are a low magic 4th level party, and when the DM mentioned it was "only a juvenile" black dragon (as if we could kill it) I got more than a bit curious.

Climax of the module, fine - I understand, but we shouldn't have been there at 4th level IMO. Especially when only one of us has a weapon with magic abilities at range (that can ramp up damage on such a creature).

I do understand that not every fight is supposed to be winnable, as I have been playing this game for quite a while (and that's en entirely different discussion anyway), but we felt this was something with which we really didn't have much of a chance. Had the dragon been able to breathe again before we got away, at least two party members would have died. (and we weren't even trying to fight the blasted thing - all we were trying to do was run with no hesitation)

I actually did not know the title of the module in question. If it is a 3.0 adventure then the dragon is underrated, adding ambush and the fact that we are under-equipped magically and by level, and I have my answer.

Thanks for all the help,

-A

I agree, a juvenile black dragon would outclass your party at its current strength. I ran this module for a group twice the size of yours. There were dead PCs at the end of the encounter. The dragon only just survived. Had the PCs not chosen to run, they might have defeated the dragon; they might have been completely wiped out. It really was that close.

Why are you looking at the beastie's stats?

Welcome to the boards.

 

[Ranes]

I was just curious. Note AR's point that, in the the original module, the beastie is young, not juvenile. Perhaps your DM advanced it a category. Perhaps he ran it as written and misinformed you. Whatever, both my previous posts qualified the context in which I believe that encounter would be balanced. From everything you've said, I think you all did well to escape.

I hope I didn't give you any other impression.

 

[duhtroll]

No, like I said I wasn't trying to sound like a jerk or anything. I feel the same way. That whole encounter just struck me as funny so I asked those that know best.

-A

 

[Stalker0]

Five 4th-level characters are almost as tough as a 5th-level party of 4.

I would say with the party they had that's not really true. 5th level is a major leap for clerics and wizards...for 3rd level spells are major increase in power.

This particular encounter can really come down to what spells the casters have available. Give some of the players some elemental resistances and they might blow through the dragon.

 

[Quasqueton]

Didn't at least some of the "monsters" earlier in that adventure know about the dragon? Could the PCs have learned of this danger before going down? I've DMed for a virtual TPK because the PCs slaughtered everyone and everything that could have warned them about the BBEG at the back of the dungeon.

And like others have said, not everything in the world (or adventure) is perfectly matched to let you win with a challenge. Pick your battles. Plan for the tough ones, or avoid them.

The roper in that very same adventure was supposed to teach the party of adventurers that lesson.

Quasqueton

 

[Shin Okada]

I have not read that particular module. But as Darkness said, that encounter might be EL 8 or so. Usually, big modules are assuming that the PCs level up by 1 or so during an adventure. So, if that module is "four 4th-level adventurers", I guess the writer was assuming that the climax encounter will be fought by four 5th-level PCs. That is +3 EL above PC level and thus a good balanced "boss" encounter.

So I think, the written encounter itself is "fair".

But your party maybe a little bit weaker than assumed PC party. Though having 5 PCs, one is Monk. Frankly speaking, one of the weakest PC class. Also, low-magic maybe hurting your party. In D&D, the amount of gears affects largely on one's strength.

 

[dcollins]

The module is actually listed as being for 3rd-level PCs.

 

[Darkness]

I would say with the party they had that's not really true.

Right, I should have said "almost." Oh wait - I did.

 

[Shin Okada]

The module is actually listed as being for 3rd-level PCs.

Hm. Then the encounter maybe a little bit tougher one. Are there any chance for PCs to know the existence or Black Dragon beforehand? The encounter against a dragon become easier if PCs know the color of it and prepare appropriate counter measure against it's breath. The module maybe counting on this factor.

 

[Ranes]

There is one opportunity to foreshadow the dragon but PCs are unlikely to trust the source, even if they encounter it. When I ran it, I added some detail that gave the foreshadowing more veracity. My players knew what was coming. They just didn't know exactly when.