Even the Gilmore Girls don't like D&D....

[Blackspy]

Gilmore Girls

First off, what the heck are you doing watching Gilmore Girls - unless of course you have a valid excuse such as.....
hmmm....
oh yeah, the girlfriend, wife , sister watches it.

In a positive portrayal, Gary Gygax was on Futurama, and Alice Cooper played D&D in the end creds of the 70's show.

 

[Hand of Vecna]

Might as well share my first D&D story. It's kinds funny, to.

When I was but a lad of 10 years old (about 14 years ago), my Mother took me o a used book sale at a local school I had once attended (we had since moved and I had to change schools). There, amidst numerous books, lay one that caught my eye, a tome entitled Monster Manual. Flipping through the pages, I saw numerous depictions of monsters and creatures taken from my imagination... and my nightmares. I ran to my mother and asked her to buy it for me, and she did, since she never thought any harm could come from reading (my Mom was great in that respect).

Later, as I pored over the book, I noticed odd "stat blocks" and references to a game called Advanced Dungeons & Dragons. My curiosity piqued even moreso, I soon ventured to the closest hobby shop (a Hungates in a nearby mall) and used my meager allowance to purches a Dungeons & Dragons Boxed Set (black box w/ red dragon on cover).

Now, here's the really funny part of the story -- the school that was having the used book sale, where I got the AD&D MM, was a Catholic school!!!

 

[Wormwood]

Now, here's the really funny part of the story -- the school that was having the used book sale, where I got the AD&D MM, was a Catholic school!!!

It's only funny if you don't understand that most Christians are *not* like Jack Chick.

I went to Catholic school high school myself, and we had a faculty-moderated D&D Club (3:30—4:30 with Father Manning, I believe).

No problems there.

ps. Man, were those kids geeks!

 

[I'm A Banana]

religion & D&D

Quoted:
--Now, here's the really funny part of the story -- the school that was having the used book sale, where I got the AD&D MM, was a Catholic school!!!--

See, that's not that funny to me. There's not instant animosity between religion and D&D. I went to catholic schools until college, and that's where I found and fell into my D&D addiction. Of course, that's also where I ended up renouncing Catholicism, but that's a differen story entirely unrelated to D&D.

Those who use their faith as an excuse to hate D&D give the rest of those believers a bad rap. There are far more understanding people who are good, god-fearing religious types than there are guys who take it a bit far.

Just remember: Catholics are people too.

And those peoplpe who *do* hate D&D and call it satanic have good reasoning behind it, if you buy into their "givens."

Think about it. They say that paganism is satanic. That's not too extreme of a belief to hold -- I'm sure many otherwise "normal" god-fearers beleive that not beleiving in their god is beleiving in someone posing as a diety -- a deciever. Satan.

So along comes D&D. In D&D, you play the role of an admitted pagan. This is not the True God your worshiping. So, though it may be fantasy, you play someone who worships a deviever. You play a character that worships Satan.

Now, if your view of Satan includes someone who is deceptive, alluring, wouldn't he go from that creative experience of pretending to be a pagan, to becoming a pagan. By playing in the world, you expose yourself to pagan ideas and pagan mindsets. Mindsets that may even exist in the God-fearing world, that are mirrored using creatures obviously of the devil's make.

Okay, it doesn't stand up 100%, but it's not surprising to see.

Once again, instead of judging people instantly lesser, it's often better to see what logic holds up their arguments. Of course, that logic may be flawed (paganism may not be nessecarily satan-worship. And in an imaginary world, where God does not exist as such, doesn't nessecarily mean anything for the Real World), but it is logic, and there are reasons for beleiving that.

Attack the logic, not the idea.

Anyhoo, I keep babling, but people keep encouraging me, so let's see if my "defending" Jack Chick raises any eyebrows.

 

[Warlock]

Re: religion & D&D

Quoted:
--Now, here's the really funny part of the story -- the school that was having the used book sale, where I got the AD&D MM, was a Catholic school!!!--

See, that's not that funny to me. There's not instant animosity between religion and D&D. I went to catholic schools until college, and that's where I found and fell into my D&D addiction. Of course, that's also where I ended up renouncing Catholicism, but that's a differen story entirely unrelated to D&D.

Those who use their faith as an excuse to hate D&D give the rest of those believers a bad rap. There are far more understanding people who are good, god-fearing religious types than there are guys who take it a bit far.

Just remember: Catholics are people too.

And those peoplpe who *do* hate D&D and call it satanic have good reasoning behind it, if you buy into their "givens."

Think about it. They say that paganism is satanic. That's not too extreme of a belief to hold -- I'm sure many otherwise "normal" god-fearers beleive that not beleiving in their god is beleiving in someone posing as a diety -- a deciever. Satan.

So along comes D&D. In D&D, you play the role of an admitted pagan. This is not the True God your worshiping. So, though it may be fantasy, you play someone who worships a deviever. You play a character that worships Satan.

Now, if your view of Satan includes someone who is deceptive, alluring, wouldn't he go from that creative experience of pretending to be a pagan, to becoming a pagan. By playing in the world, you expose yourself to pagan ideas and pagan mindsets. Mindsets that may even exist in the God-fearing world, that are mirrored using creatures obviously of the devil's make.

Okay, it doesn't stand up 100%, but it's not surprising to see.

Once again, instead of judging people instantly lesser, it's often better to see what logic holds up their arguments. Of course, that logic may be flawed (paganism may not be nessecarily satan-worship. And in an imaginary world, where God does not exist as such, doesn't nessecarily mean anything for the Real World), but it is logic, and there are reasons for beleiving that.

Attack the logic, not the idea.

Anyhoo, I keep babling, but people keep encouraging me, so let's see if my "defending" Jack Chick raises any eyebrows.

Good point. I guess i've never thought of it that way.

 

[JohnRTroy]

Rather Gilmore Girls Crack than the Buffy one.

Hi guys,

I get a little irritated by the cracks made at times.

However, the recent "negative" ones were what I call "dismissive" but not prejudiced. As a fan of both Gilmore Girls and West Wing, I felt the comments were okay--what a real person would say. Lorelei makes fun of a LOT of things, so I saw no problem with the quip--for the West Wing, it was a little weird, but also passible.

The ones that irritate me are the ones that totally reflect the stereotypes. Somebody mentioned Buffy the Vampire Slayer. I'm sorry, but I have seen a little too much negative connotations aimed at D&D on that show and Angel--from the rich guy who dressed up as the Wizard in Angel for a few episodes, to the three geeks currently as Buffy, to stuff on Chris Carter's various shows (X-Files, Lone Gunmen). For shows that deal with the genre-oriented stuff, you would think the writers would know better than to use cheap stereotypes. In my opinion, the anger should be directed at THEM, not GG or WW.

And I'm not counting Simpsons or Dexters Lab or shows like that--since they are more or less parodys and will poke fun at absolutely everything.

 

[Wolfspider]

Wow. I think your anger is misdirected. Joss Whedon is one of the biggest geek-loving D&D freaks on the planet. The rich guy/"Bill Gates" clone was poking fun exactly at the kind of gamer stereotypes about gamers that other people espouse. It's very obvious to me from these shows that Joss Whedon loves the hobby dearly.

It's a thin line between love and hate, I know, a distinction that may not be recognized by everyone, obviously.

 

[Sulimo]

Geez, I guess it's a whole different environment than when I was in school.

Yeah. Our schools library even carried a substantial range of RPG gear (from memory it was mainly MERP and 1e AD&D).

 

[I'm A Banana]

Poking Fun and Insulting

As I've said above, it's really two different things, and it does depend on how you view it.

I'd say the geeks on Buffy and X-Files and such were stereotypes, definately. But they're not overly insulting stereotypes. They do present a "gamer geek image," but, at the same time, being gamer geeks doesn't make them bad people. The Lone Gunmen are quirky, but they're the only guys to go to, sometimes. D&D is just a way to enhance their geek-chic, and, at the same time, is almost empowering, as it displays geeks as people who are worthy of respect, and dignity, even if they are a bit different.

I didn't see the episode of the Gilmore Girls in question, but, judging from the reprint of the idea, it's not empowering, encouraging, or anything but an insult. She sneered.

It may be with the character, but I still take offence at it. It's implying that D&D is bad, in some way, and makes you worthy of contempt. It's implying that being a D&D nerd means that you don't deserve to be treated like someone who isn't.

I'm not against the Gamer Geek stereotype. Stereotypes are impossible to overcome. No matter how many African-Americans get high-ranking jobs in technological and other fields, the stereotype of the "Gangsta" will never be erased. No matter how many people from the Deep South decide to become pagans and design LINUX technology, the redneck stereotype will never be erased.

I'm comfortable with the stereotype. Stereotypes are just that, and they don't reflect reality in any but the most minute of ways. I can live with a stereotype.

I can't live with people assuming a superior attitude based on that stereotype. The moment people read that "that's not like me, so you're worse than me," a problem crops up.

I don't see any of that in Buffy or the X-Files. I do see that in comments like that from Gilmore Girls. I even feel it a bit in the Jesse episode, but it's a milder case (the guy led a mostly normal life...he wasn't a psycho, but maybe borderline). I don't feel any of it in the Simpsons.

Poking fun at a stereotype is leagues away from mean-spirited insults.

 

[MaxKaladin]

On the Catholic thing: I cannot ever recall hearing of the Catholic church having a problem with D&D or any RPGs. In fact, they seem to look favorably on them as most mentions of Catholics and D&D seem to involve the Priest-led game group or things like that.

Anti-D&D though seems to be pretty much limited to particularly closed-minded variants of Protestantism (as I've never heard of anti-RPG from any of the other major religions on the planet).