D&D 5E Everything wrong with the Wizard Psionics subclass

[Zardnaar]

Gestures and bleeding noses I think are more of a tell for the audience at home to get over the idea theres something special going on.

Its theatrics on the screen for our (the audiences) benefit

 

[Maxperson]

Psionicist should be a unique class but built on the Sorcerer backbone and use the spell point system from the DMG, but it needs it's own unique Spell (Powers) list that does not overlap with any of the current spell lists. Archtypes should be chosen at third that reflect a concentration in one of classic disciplines. This is why this is so hard to do in UA. No one wants to develop a whole new lists of spells (powers). It is a daunting task but needs to be done if they are going to do this right.

You say it needs to be done right, and then suggest it be built on the sorcerer class. Those don't work well together. If done right, the class abilities will also be unique to Psions, which nixes sorcerer as a backbone.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

Gestures and bleeding noses I think are more of a tell for the audience at home to get over the idea theres something special going on.

Its theatrics on the screen for our (the audiences) benefit

Exactly. And in D&D you would want to normally have some visual indication of psionic use so it could be counterspelled (otherwise too powerful).

For wizard magic, the verbal and somatic components aren't just required, it is essential to get them exactly right or the spell doesn't work. See: Harry Potter, Doctor Strange.

For psionics, it's more like making hand gestures whilst speaking. It's not essential, but it requires a fair bit of concentration to do without: See: Ray using Jedi Mind Trick with bound hands in TFA.

Sorcery in the media is pretty much the same as psionics, apart from the range of powers being broader. See: Scarlet Witch (although she is mechanically more like a warlock), Elsa.

 

[Leatherhead]

Exactly. And in D&D you would want to normally have some visual indication of psionic use so it could be counterspelled (otherwise too powerful).

Counterspell is only a small component of it really. You don't want people walking around town killing everyone with untraceable mind-bullets. The characters (which include NPCs) in the world need to be able to react to what is happening.

 

[Perun]

Exactly. And in D&D you would want to normally have some visual indication of psionic use so it could be counterspelled (otherwise too powerful).

For wizard magic, the verbal and somatic components aren't just required, it is essential to get them exactly right or the spell doesn't work. See: Harry Potter, Doctor Strange.

For psionics, it's more like making hand gestures whilst speaking. It's not essential, but it requires a fair bit of concentration to do without: See: Ray using Jedi Mind Trick with bound hands in TFA.

Wielding One Power in the Wheel of Time series is similar.

Spoiler: WoT Wiki

Quoted form here:
In weaving the threads Aes Sedai developed unnecessary gestures, so particular and specific that you could trace who taught the weave originally based on minor quirks.

On the contrary Aiel Wise Ones do not use a lot of gestures, their weaves can seem rough and in some cases less effective, but this avoided some problems linked to gesturing. The first problem is that if you have the hands occupied or bonded you can't form a weave properly. The second problem is that a specific gesture, repeated many and many time to form the same weave, imprints itself in the mind of the channeller, so she can't easily learn a new manner to form it. For example, when new effective healing weaves were invented or rediscovered, many Aes Sedai imprinted by the traditional healing weaves were not able to learn easily the new ones.

It's something that could be adopted to D&D, if one is inclined.

I think it's a pity D&D never delved deeper into the whole magic system, and I preferred stricter divisions between magic (or 'magic') types (arcane, divine, psionics) from earlier editions.

 

[Maxperson]

Exactly. And in D&D you would want to normally have some visual indication of psionic use so it could be counterspelled (otherwise too powerful).

That's not exactly true. You can make the class abilities weaker to compensate. Counterspell use isn't so common that not being able to counter psionics can't be balanced another way.

For psionics, it's more like making hand gestures whilst speaking. It's not essential, but it requires a fair bit of concentration to do without: See: Ray using Jedi Mind Trick with bound hands in TFA.

Luke uses the mind trick with no gestures in Return of the Jedi without any special extra concentration needed. Rey was just barely starting to use the force when she did that. The extra concentration was due to newness to the force, not because she didn't use a gesture.

Have some other visual, or sound, or smell associated with psionics use, like 3e had. If they do what you suggest here, it won't be psionics.

Sorcery in the media is pretty much the same as psionics, apart from the range of powers being broader. See: Scarlet Witch (although she is mechanically more like a warlock), Elsa.

And apart from needing to use components. And apart from psionics not being just a wizard done differently. And apart from the class abilities being the same.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

And apart from psionics not being just a wizard done differently.

Sorcery shouldn't just be wizard done differently.

That's the problem, really. Sorcerer is not sufficiently different from wizard in 5e. Sorcerer and Psion are variations on the same thing - someone whose supernatural powers are inherent rather than learned. The psion should replace sorcerer as a base class, with sorcerer as a subclass that has access to spells from the wizard list.

 

[Maxperson]

Sorcery shouldn't just be wizard done differently.

That's the problem, really. Sorcerer is not sufficiently different from wizard in 5e. Sorcerer and Psion are variations on the same thing - someone whose supernatural powers are inherent rather than learned. The psion should replace sorcerer as a base class, with sorcerer as a subclass that has access to spells from the wizard list.

That's all they have ever been, though. They just intuitively use the same spells, with the same components, as wizards. We haven't played one in 5e yet in my group. Do they have different spells than wizards now? Are there any spells unique to sorcerers?

It would make more sense to make sorcerer a subclass of Wizard, than Psion.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

That's all they have ever been, though.

Since 3rd edition introduced them, anyway. They have always been a missed opportunity, and, once Vancian casting was dropped, pointless.

Are there any spells unique to sorcerers?

One or two. Chaos Bolt is one. Not enough to justify their existence thoough.

 

[Tony Vargas]

Are there any spells unique to sorcerers?

Not in the PH.

It would make more sense to make sorcerer a subclass of Wizard, than Psion.

It's worth noting that there aren't a lot of unique-to-a-single-class spells in 5e, anyway - the Wizard hold the record, by a large margin, at 33 in the PH, followed by the Cleric at 27, and the Druid & Paladin at 17 each. Notably, those're all the prepped casters, so they have pretty ready access to their unique spells. The other 'known' casters, OTOH, have single-digit numbers of unique spells.

Yes.

IMHO, it'd make about as much sense as having the wizard/sorcerer/warlock/bard (all wielding arcane magic, different mainly in where they got it) for the Psion to be one of several psionic classes, along-side a knowledge/training Erudite, an inborn-power Wilder, and a telempathic-leader Ardent.