Evil Deities: Who needs em?

[rounser]

I find the discinction between "evil deity" and "archfiend" somewhat artificial.

You'd expect the same behaviour from a Lucifer as from a Loki? From a Pazazu as from a Pan?

I think perhaps there's a different set of expectations from gods than from archdevils and demon lords. Evil deities are less communal and therefore less interesting than the lords of these infernal groups, perhaps. And cthulhu mythos horrors are completely alien and primal, from somewhere in a howling void out of space and time beyond human ideas of morality, and therefore also more interesting than evil deities...again, perhaps.

 

[diaglo]

Ah, I was editing my reply to that effect just as you posted this! (By the way, which gods manifested during the Greyhawk Wars? I don't recall any.)

Apart from the Time of Troubles, I can recall Bhaal and an avatar of that FR Beastlord god manifesting on the Moonshaes.

i'm not a huge fan of the 2edADnD Greyhack stuff so don't quote me...

but the loss of/return of the monk and assassin in the WG8 Fate of Istus and the Scarlet Brotherhood

and Iuz in WGS1 Five Shall be One and WGS2 Howl from the North

and the Crook of Rao stuff

 

[Nifft]

IMC, there are no Evil Gods. There are Arch-Devils, Demon-Princes and other such beasties who grant spells and other powers to their followers. Gods are all Good or Neutral.

-- N

 

[Altalazar]

Why not extend this logic further, and ask why you need any good dieties, when you could have similar beings who are not gods, but perhaps also grant spells?

 

[diaglo]

Why not extend this logic further, and ask why you need any good dieties, when you could have similar beings who are not gods, but perhaps also grant spells?

no you sound like Nighttfall and his Scarred Lands...

 

[rounser]

Why not extend this logic further, and ask why you need any good dieties, when you could have similar beings who are not gods, but perhaps also grant spells?

Well, you could. However, I'd say that Archangels without at least one god of good to report to is an aberration. With Archdevils, Demon Lords and Great Old Ones, I'd argue that having no gods for them to report to is the norm - and if Evil Deities are there as well, there are awkward compromises and distinctions to make over who gets what slice of the evil pie...

 

[Altalazar]

Well, you could. However, I'd say that Archangels without at least one god of good to report to is an aberration. With Archdevils, Demon Lords and Great Old Ones, I'd argue that having no gods for them to report to is the norm - and if Evil Deities are there as well, there are awkward compromises and distinctions to make over who gets what slice of the evil pie...

There's really no reason that they would need to report to anyone. After all, the real aberration here is not having any evil gods - the standard has always been to have gods of all alignments.

I think it would actually be much more interesting, if you were to take this approach, to have no gods at all. It is also much more internally consistent that way.

 

[Whisper72]

Hmmm.. Evil Gods are just as useful as Good Gods wrt beating them up or something akin on their home plane. Statistics for Gods are IMHO nonsense.

Evil Gods are needed however, to maintain a presence of evil in the world at large once the good PC's have killed all the demons, devils and cthulhoids....

 

[rounser]

There's really no reason that they would need to report to anyone.

Depends how closely you want to stick to the "angels as servants and justicars, devils as rebels and outcasts" thing I guess.

Statistics for Gods are IMHO nonsense.

I think that's a good deal of the proof right there. Untouchables (as gods are largely viewed and statted to be) are less useful than the alternatives mentioned, who are a lot more inclined to mix it up with the PCs direct-like.

 

[LordVyreth]

The trouble is, if you delete evil gods, then you have to make the archfiends/devils/Old Ones/etc. as powerful as the good gods, or there's no explanation for why the good gods don't just kick their respective patooties. And considering that, the evil stand-ins are basically evil gods in everything but name, anyway. I think the problem is that we're combining three mythologies into one source. We have polytheistic systems, where the are both good and evil gods, monotheistic systems, where there's only one, presumably good, god, so any opposition has to be something entirely different, and the whole mythos system, where there are no gods, just amoral beings of incredible power who are so far above us that they see us as a walking snack bar. It takes some work to combine the three into one setting without it looking inconsistent or cluttered, but we can have western dragons, medusa, monks, and rakshaha in one campaign world, then this is doable.