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Evil Disguised as Good...

Scribble said:
But how to accomplish this in a world filled with magic that can detect "alignment" ...

IF the PCs feel the need to check alignment. Unless they do it with every single character they encounter or house rules are set that the DM automatically tells a paladin PC the alignment of the person standing in front of him, they will probably assume the alignment of the god before thinking about the alignment of the person.
 

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Evil is a mighty deceptive thing, and evil gods are just as powerful as the good ones...

Those that worship an evil deity at the head of a good church are being protected by their deity. As far as the good god knows, they still worship him/her/it. They still gain spells from the good god while gaining a boost of sorts from the evil god. Maybe one domain is replaced with another, maybe the ability to rebuke undead (it could look like a turning if you word the command correctly), or something similar. While still acting as head of the church they can't cast evil spells, but may continuie to cast good spells.

There are plenty of magic items that a high level cleric can procure that hide alignments.

When the evil priests are discovered, they lose their connection with their good god and (hopefully) replace it with that of the evil god. If the good god is willing to risk open war, they can send angels to kill the cleric. The evil god can just as easily send demons/devils as a counter.

My two cents...
 

Eberron good but only so far

I had hoped for more from Eberron in terms of clerics having varying alignments, faiths having arguments etc. and the logical application of 3.5 spells etc. not resolving those.

Religious schism etc. is such a potentially lovely roleplaying/campaign driving/historical device etc., but how do you have a schism over doctrine when you can cast Commune "Is the traditional view correct oh Lord?" "Is the view we are inclined to think heresy acceptable to you oh Lord"? and "Are there any corrupt clerics in the District 23 temple ward?"

Per the "sweet spot" thread, to me this connects to any "absolute establisher of fact" spell or power being problematic if you want your game to involve more social/political conflicts outside a "dungeon". In a dungeon, the answer to "Is the Ring of Power on the 5th level" is fine to have. In the social/political confict, "Is the chancellor really corrupt" is not fine to have answered.

Whether you want a less-gamist game, or you want religious heresy, corrupt clerics, murder mysteries and political plots to be approachable "gamistly" such spells are "instant kill" equivalents. Commune resolves heresy, alignment detecting magics weed out too many unless nerfed by something like the Perceived Alignment feat (which makes one wonder why bothering alignment detecting magics etc.) or continual use of counter magics.

In essence, this makes being "evil" something with a disadvantage (the "kill me" brand) that is bought off by spending a feat choice, using up spell slots daily, having fewer other possessions of use. One reason to join a cult or somesuch is likely to get access to such protections.

I've revised Commune to have the same effect as the psionic power Hypercognition in many ways except those that are "remote" (enhancing the caster's own mental acuity and recall to superhuman levels ~ allowing the revelation of information the character might have perceived with the right checks etc., or the player deduced if they had 'put two and two together'). I am generous with what this reveals (treating character as Sherlock Holmes on steroids) but still it won't solve what is to the character a "black box mystery" (what is on the other side of the great ocean no one has ever crossed?). This still makes it incredibly useful in murder mysteries etc. but in "figuring out the mind of a god", much less useful.

Alignment detecting spells are still a problem as well. Dragon magazine and other sources have published thoughts on how to revise these. One is to restrict "alignment radiation" to creatures with the evil subtype not simply creatures aligned evil. This in turn has a problem though worked through to "who gets affected by the Blasphemy spell etc.". I don't know how to fix these issues without major surgery on game system.

It does keep coming back to D&D being a game "best at the gamist dungeon".
 

Valvorik said:
I had hoped for more from Eberron in terms of clerics having varying alignments, faiths having arguments etc. and the logical application of 3.5 spells etc. not resolving those.

Religious schism etc. is such a potentially lovely roleplaying/campaign driving/historical device etc., but how do you have a schism over doctrine when you can cast Commune "Is the traditional view correct oh Lord?" "Is the view we are inclined to think heresy acceptable to you oh Lord"? and "Are there any corrupt clerics in the District 23 temple ward?"
That one is covered in Eberron (though it might be in the Dragonshards, I'm not sure). Basically, spells like Commune contact some sort of powerful outsider who shares your faith, not the deity itself (which may or may not exist). And in matters of doctrine, that outsider might not know things any better than you do, and different clerics casting Commune might contact different outsiders.
 

Staffan said:
That one is covered in Eberron (though it might be in the Dragonshards, I'm not sure). Basically, spells like Commune contact some sort of powerful outsider who shares your faith, not the deity itself (which may or may not exist). And in matters of doctrine, that outsider might not know things any better than you do, and different clerics casting Commune might contact different outsiders.

That helps considerably then, as two outsiders (assuming they themselves can't check directly with the deity) could have different views of doctrines. And who is to say one of them hasn't been corrupted.....
 

Valvorik said:
That helps considerably then, as two outsiders (assuming they themselves can't check directly with the deity)
Presumably, the Outsiders don't have any greater connection to the deities than people from the Material plane. The gods don't live on the outer planes in Eberron's cosmology.
 

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