Evil Genius Games bleeding personnel?

[overgeeked]

I am the partner of someone who has been a contractor at Evil Genius and resigned in Dec. Whatever the reason, these current employees are willing to leave without other jobs to support them. That says something. Odds are they have not been fully paid for their work prior to leaving and leaving seems like a way you definitely don't get paid.

My partner submitted invoices for payment and at the point of resigning he had not been paid anything for his work at EGG. To date, over a month since he should have been paid we have received 1/3 of the money that is due to him. Ironically we were paid for the later work he did and not the earlier.

Dave Scott wants to publicly come out and paint himself as a "nice guy", but I am sure he did not stop living his lifestyle while he was asking employees to keep working while not getting paid. Correction, contractors not employees, because my husband was a contractor even though he was paid hourly/monthly and was expected to work 40 hours. I am 100% convinced he did this to avoid employment laws and avoid paying the FICA taxes, which speaks volumes to his character.

Also, I appreciate how he definitely tried to make it sound earlier in this thread like he was against Web3 technology, when 2 months ago his LinkedIn listing EGG had Web3 in the main header and in the description. Personally, I think he wanted to use Web3 and/or had investors that wanted to use Web3, but no one at his company would stand for it and slowly left till it became too much for those remaining and a larger group left. Now he is creating a "code of ethics" and trying to sound like he wasn't the one trying to make it happen the whole time. Another thing that makes me question his character.

We had in generally washed our hands of the negative experience that was EGG and I thought I would never have to think about it again, but then I heard about all this chatter and found out Dave was on here trying to make himself look like a Rose. We had bills to pay and debt that was expected to be paid off with those funds. Luckily us having a roof over our heads wasn't dependent on that money, and I hope that isn't the case for some of the others that left. Maybe after he pays people for the work they did for him, he can start talking about Ethics.

Thank you for posting this.

 

[BJ Hensley]

I am the partner of someone who has been a contractor at Evil Genius and resigned in Dec. Whatever the reason, these current employees are willing to leave without other jobs to support them. That says something. Odds are they have not been fully paid for their work prior to leaving and leaving seems like a way you definitely don't get paid.

My partner submitted invoices for payment and at the point of resigning he had not been paid anything for his work at EGG. To date, over a month since he should have been paid we have received 1/3 of the money that is due to him. Ironically we were paid for the later work he did and not the earlier.

Dave Scott wants to publicly come out and paint himself as a "nice guy", but I am sure he did not stop living his lifestyle while he was asking employees to keep working while not getting paid. Correction, contractors not employees, because my husband was a contractor even though he was paid hourly/monthly and was expected to work 40 hours. I am 100% convinced he did this to avoid employment laws and avoid paying the FICA taxes, which speaks volumes to his character.

Also, I appreciate how he definitely tried to make it sound earlier in this thread like he was against Web3 technology, when 2 months ago his LinkedIn listing EGG had Web3 in the main header and in the description. Personally, I think he wanted to use Web3 and/or had investors that wanted to use Web3, but no one at his company would stand for it and slowly left till it became too much for those remaining and a larger group left. Now he is creating a "code of ethics" and trying to sound like he wasn't the one trying to make it happen the whole time. Another thing that makes me question his character.

We had in generally washed our hands of the negative experience that was EGG and I thought I would never have to think about it again, but then I heard about all this chatter and found out Dave was on here trying to make himself look like a Rose. We had bills to pay and debt that was expected to be paid off with those funds. Luckily us having a roof over our heads wasn't dependent on that money, and I hope that isn't the case for some of the others that left. Maybe after he pays people for the work they did for him, he can start talking about Ethics.

I almost always publicly stay out of these kinds of threads, but I've been following along, and while I don't know you, I wanted to personally offer my support and tell you that I believe you. It is incredibly difficult to speak out plainly (or at all) in situations like this one, let alone to be one of the first to do so. I applaud your bravery and respect that you chose to.

I also hope that everyone here will treat you with the decency and respect you deserve.

 

[Sacrosanct]

Dave Scott wants to publicly come out and paint himself as a "nice guy", but I am sure he did not stop living his lifestyle while he was asking employees to keep working while not getting paid. Correction, contractors not employees, because my husband was a contractor even though he was paid hourly/monthly and was expected to work 40 hours. I am 100% convinced he did this to avoid employment laws and avoid paying the FICA taxes, which speaks volumes to his character.

First off, I am terribly sorry you have to experience this. You have my complete sympathy. While I'm responding to this one bit, that doesn't mean I don't think the other things you said are unimportant, only that I can't really comment about them.

For this bit, there are several reasons why contractors are used and not direct to hire employees. I only use contractors, because I go by projects, and rather than hire someone on a project only to lay them off when the project is done, it makes more sense to hire them as contractors for that specific project. That doesn't mean I'm trying to avoid taxes or have bad character. If your husband's contract stated 40 hours a work week, then absolutely he should be paid that or it's a violation of that contract. If the contract was for work without stating an hour per week req, then requiring that is also a violation because contractors are there to do the work, not be micromanaged like an employee is, and typically contractors aren't dictated hours. I see this stuff all the time--people not understanding how contract work actually works and confusing a contractor with an employee (employers/businesses should really know better). Seems like a lot of companies want the flexibility of using contractors while also having the control of being an employer to an employee, and you can't have it both ways. It's frustrating.

This is from the state of Oregon, but most contractors in most states are the same:

That means you shouldn't dictate how, when and where contractors do the work. For instance, you shouldn't set work hours for your contractors, assign them an office or provide them with tools. You should treat them as a vendor. Next, you shouldn't provide training to do the work.

Again, I'm not trying to pick on you by pointing out this clarification, only to help illustrate why these conversations can get tricky, because you (general you, not you specifically) need to be careful about implications of a person's character or accusations.

 

[Snarf Zagyg]

Seems like a lot of companies want the flexibility of using contractors while also having the control of being an employer to an employee, and you can't have it both ways. It's frustrating.

As someone who has dealt with this a LOT in the past ... I think you are being overly generous here.

Simply put, there are a lot of employers who simply want to have employees, but use "independent contractor" as a dodge in order to avoid the various issues that come up with the employee status. In other words, it's easier (and less expensive for them) to just "1099" their employees. Even though this is unlawful.

The factors are listed as follows for determining the employment relationship-
(1) the extent to which the services in question are an integral part of the `employer[']s' business; (2) the amount of the so-called `contractor's' investment in facilities and equipment; (3) the nature and degree of control by the principal; (4) opportunities for profit and loss; . . . (5) the amount of initiative judgment or foresight required for the success of the claimed independent enterprise[;] and [(6)] permanency of the relation.

But as a general rule, if the person is doing work for you as part of their "own thing," then they are an independent contract. Say, for example, a plumber. Or an artist that you hire to make illustrations for a book.

If, however, you are dictating the hours of work and the location and time of the work, then you're probably dealing with an employee., not an independent contractor.

 

[Gradine]

Yeah, it's a fairly common sight to see employers wanting to have employees but pay them like independent contractors, and maximizing profit means doing as much of that as you can get away with.

That's not to say that every instance of independent contract work is exploitative; far from it. Just that, sadly, not everyone in the business has the same scruples as you, @Sacrosanct

 

[Sacrosanct]

As someone who has dealt with this a LOT in the past ... I think you are being overly generous here.

My New Year's Resolution was to try to be more diplomatic

If, however, you are dictating the hours of work and the location and time of the work, then you're probably dealing with an employee., not an independent contractor.

Yep. That was a big red flag to me. You (business) can say "I need this work done by this date", but generally you cannot dictate hours per day.

 

[Juxtapozbliss]

Isn’t it standard ttrpg practice these days to use freelancers to write and design books? From what I’ve heard, very few ttrpg companies have enough revenue to have a stable of full time game designers and artists. They all deserve to be paid fairly, but I’ve heard this is pretty much the only way they can stay in business. They are mostly very small businesses that pay per project.

 

[jdrakeh]

Isn’t it standard ttrpg practice these days to use freelancers to write and design books? From what I’ve heard, very few ttrpg companies have enough revenue to have a stable of full time game designers and artists. They all deserve to be paid fairly, but I’ve heard this is pretty much the only way they can stay in business. They are mostly very small businesses that pay per project.

Most publishers (even very small ones) pay on time and the amount agreed upon, however. I have never not been paid in full or on time and I've only worked for very small publishers. There are some outliers, however (and even a few "big" publishers who do not).

 

[Raven110]

Isn’t it standard ttrpg practice these days to use freelancers to write and design books? From what I’ve heard, very few ttrpg companies have enough revenue to have a stable of full time game designers and artists. They all deserve to be paid fairly, but I’ve heard this is pretty much the only way they can stay in business. They are mostly very small businesses that pay per project.

To be clear I have no problem with EGG or any TTRPGs using freelancers but usually those types of people have deadlines, word count, or finished products they are aiming at to get paid with clear payments at X points or at the completion and that was not the case for my partner and I'm guessing he was not the only one.

 

[JLowder]

Most publishers (even very small ones) pay on time and the amount agreed upon, however. I have never not been paid in full or on time and I've only worked for very small publishers. There are some outliers, however (and even a few "big" publishers who do not).

It's great that you've had that experience. Very happy to hear it. That is not the norm in publishing, especially in tabletop RPGs. I've had both large and small companies fail to pay or delay pay or fail to honor other parts of a contract (reporting sales and royalties, for example.) I've worked with a lot of creators to get problems with publishers resolved. Problems with what should be non-controversial things such as timely pay are staggeringly common with TTRPG publishing, as they are with comics and genre fiction publishing.