Evil PCs finally turned epic, need plot-ideas! Please..?

[Jolly Giant]

Joshua R:
Good idea, but I actually tried tempting them with the old take-over-the-world-scenario back around lvl 18-19, and they just weren't interested! They got involved in a war over a remote, LG/LN island nation and swiftly kicked some lawful behind! They actually debated taking control over the entire country, but decided they just couldn't be bothered to run a nation...

SilentSpace:
I just love the idea about the githyanki lich-king making sneaky assassination attempts on the PCs! It makes PERFECT sence for him to be just that much of a bastard...

It will be sooo great too see their faces the day they realize he's been trying to kill them! They're in SUCH awe about him...


...but of course, I can always use MORE ideas...

 

[the Jester]

You kill a PC or two in the course of events, fine. Some of those deaths are even irreversible, fine. Actually aiming for PC deaths (and a 50% kill rate!): unacceptable.

Well, I 'aim for' a tpk every game, but I rarely kill even a single character.

 

[Jolly Giant]

Well, I 'aim for' a tpk every game, but I rarely kill even a single character.

Same here! There's just not enough PC-deaths in D&D...

 

[ruleslawyer]

You guys play with a different agenda in mind, then.

Jester: How can you fail to kill the PCs if you "aim for a TPK"? You're the DM, after all; if you really WANTED to kill the PCs, all you would need to do is set your ELs high enough. Aim to challenge the PCs, sure. Aim to kill 'em? Hardly.

 

[Jhamin]

You guys play with a different agenda in mind, then.

Jester: How can you fail to kill the PCs if you "aim for a TPK"? You're the DM, after all; if you really WANTED to kill the PCs, all you would need to do is set your ELs high enough. Aim to challenge the PCs, sure. Aim to kill 'em? Hardly.

Agreed. If you want a TPK you can have one whenever you want. Just figure out the highest save bonus, BAB, AC, and so on in the party and then throw them up against something they can't kill. Have them fight something with an AC 25 points over their best BAB, with a BAB +45 over their best AC (for combat feats) immunity to every form of special attack, and enough HP to withstand them doing maximum possible damage every round until the universe ends. Then make sure they can't get away. Your the DM. You can do it.

I'm not saying you should. I'm just saying you can.

 

[Particle_Man]

Well if the good and evil forces are about to have their epic battle, then right afterwards, when the (victorious?) evil pc's are catching a breather, with many of their allies destroyed, would be the perfect time for the...

Formian invasion to try to take over the world.

And of course, by "right afterwards", I am thinking rounds, not days.

 

[silentspace]

Glad to help Jolly Giant

 

[Joshua Randall]

I actually tried tempting them with the old take-over-the-world-scenario back around lvl 18-19, and they just weren't interested! They got involved in a war over a remote, LG/LN island nation and swiftly kicked some lawful behind! They actually debated taking control over the entire country, but decided they just couldn't be bothered to run a nation...

That's a perfect setup, then. Presumably it's been some time since the PCs were level 18-19. What have the shattered remnants of the LG/LN island-dwellers been doing since the PCs left? Probably nursing their grudges and plotting revenge. You could have any NPCs left alive come after the PCs. Or, the offspring / relatives / friends of anyone killed by the PCs vow to get even. Since it's been some time you can justify leveling up the NPCs to make them a challenge to the PCs.

Meanwhile, the PCs have probably become Satan incarnate in the minds of that island nation. The common people hate the PCs with religious fury. Perhaps the island's people set out across the sea, intend upon spreading word of these ruthless, evil PCs to others. So, next time the PCs are in the area, someone shrieks and points at them, saying, "Oh no! It's the evil PCs of doom!" And this explodes in a full-blown panic.... Perhaps everywhere the PCs go from now on they are met with fear and loathing. That would certainly make navigating the gameworld less mundane. (Although I assume that Epic-level PCs can relocate to Sigil or Tun'arath or somewhere without much problem.)

 

[the Jester]

You guys play with a different agenda in mind, then.

Jester: How can you fail to kill the PCs if you "aim for a TPK"? You're the DM, after all; if you really WANTED to kill the PCs, all you would need to do is set your ELs high enough. Aim to challenge the PCs, sure. Aim to kill 'em? Hardly.

Last (high level) session: 16th-20th level pcs find themselves in the demilich's crypt. They coulda left it alone, but they woke it up and stuck around to fight it. Believe me, I tried my best- that thing's CR 29!- but almost all of 'em lived and they drove it off, earning huge piles of treasure and xp.

They're just too damn resourceful, those players.

My point (such as it was, mixed in the joke of the post) is that Epic-level, or even very high but not-quite Epic-level, characters can survive surprising odds when they use their resources. I've come to the conclusion that you can rely on pcs to find the trick you hadn't thought of to take out the enemy that's impossible to beat, to get through the unbeatable trap and to bypass the hall you can't bypass. And I firmly believe that the game is more fun when the players feel that their characters are genuinely at risk, so I'm more than happy to occasionally throw unbeatable foes, traps they can't possibly avoid and halls they can't possibly bypass at the group.

Part of the challenge in getting a tpk is doing it in what I consider to be a 'fair' way- which doesn't mean you stay inside the game's lines on what you throw at the party; it means you stay inside the world's lines.

 

[I'm A Banana]

So they don't want to take over the world, eh?

What if someone *does*? Maybe one of their captains or generals gets delusions of graduer in his head (that the lich-king can use, even!), and turns against them...give them the Crew PrC (so that they know all the PC's best tricks!), and see what kind of rebellious army they can amass....having the NPC's who were once loyal suddenly turn against you ('cuz you ain't got the balls to RULE, yo!) could be a dispiriting thing for 'em.

Or worse, what if the good guys do....think about what would happen if the Church of Cuthbert suddenly stepped up it's recruitment regiment, washing over the face of the world, and hating the PC's the entire way. Suddenly, no haven is safe...could lead to a good ol' fashioned god-bashing (you've got stats for those deities, time to put 'em to use! ).

And what if they're given a challenge even bigger and more evil than they are...maybe one of the council bloods from Union thinks that the general rule that 21st+ level characters don't interefere with material plane matters is stupid...so he does. And in a big way. Who's going to stop him? Everyone else in Union's too scared to interfere, but they can't let him run rampant over the world unchecked!

And, of course, destinies work two ways. So one of the PC's was chosen by Fate? I wonder where his counterpoint is....perhaps some old, venerable seer comes and visits them one day, and leaves a cryptic message about a Child of Law and Justice that will be the PC group's undoing. They could spend the next 18+ YEARS trying to find this brat and kill him off. He's protected by powerful good, and hidden from the eye of evil wherever possible. He's the last hope of the just and the pure on the world, and they want to make sure he makes it to being a challenge....if you want to weird them out even more, have it be the rebellious child of one of the PC's themselves....that kid they thought they were teaching the ways of wickedness and depravity secretly yearns for chastity and innocence, and will do everything in his power to protect the cute fuzzy bunnies of the world! Of course, the forces of good know this...and perhaps a few of the enemies of the PC's who aren't good know it too (just because the kid's good doesn't mean the evil bashers can't use his destructive potential to their own advantage...if he wins, that's one less obstacle in their own bid for power...if he looses, well, they're no worse off....).

There's a few plans for ya.