Mind of tempest
(he/him)advocate for 5e psionics
why where 70's cops media so nuts?
Evil protagonists from fiction - or 'Examples of how to play the bad guy without being a total jerk'
Ralif Redhammer
Legend
A lot of reasons, I think. Economic crises. Crime was on the rise. The Age of Aquarius ended with the Tate-Labianca murders. You had the so-called golden age of serial killers. There were a lot of cultural shifts going on. There was the perennial fear of whatever the latest thing The Kids were into.
These violent cop and vigilante movies fed on those fears, and fed into them.
These violent cop and vigilante movies fed on those fears, and fed into them.
Gammadoodler
Hero
Think I'd also tag a generalized shift in attitude towards "authority", with a lot more earned distrust generally (Civil Rights abuses, Vietnam, Watergate, etc.). Before, individual cops might be good or bad, but the presumption was always that the laws were good, and the people breaking them were bad.
After the 60s, I think it had gotten more normalized to question whether the laws were "on your side", and so you get more protagonists who can be seen as heroic for taking care of the problems the laws "can't" solve.
GrahamWills
Hero
LIGHT YAGAMI, from Death Note. Never have I rooted so strongly for someone who has made killing people his raison d'être.
en.wikipedia.org
Light Yagami - Wikipedia
Flamestrike
Legend
Been a while, but isn't he more LN?
Flamestrike
Legend
See also this scene from Blade runner:
It's literally a rape scene, or at best something super creepy and with a massive power imbalance between the 'consenting' participants (if we're somehow of the view that Rachael is consenting despite her clear efforts to push him away, and stop it from happening) that Me-too would shudder at.
AbdulAlhazred
Legend
More like Chaotic Good! He hasn't even the time of day for 'orders' or 'rules', he's out there handing the bad guys their asses, vigilante style. I mean, he has to work within the constraints of his 'job' to a degree, but in the end all that doesn't mean much to him. He SURE ain't lawful!
AbdulAlhazred
Legend
And, see, I would consider that a complete mischaracterization of the relationship AND the action. lol. I mean, you have to be careful. This is a HIGHLY fictional situation unlike anything in the real world in some rather fundamental ways too. Decker slams the door, OTOH if she goes out, she WILL be retired. When he demands that she express feelings for him, there's a lot more to it than some guy bullying a woman, that reading is IMHO simply wrong.
I totally agree though, if a man in the real world behaved in the same way to a woman, I don't think that would be OK. The degree of how not OK might depend somewhat on the larger context, but it surely is not somewhere you can go. This is why movies exist though, to provide that escape. Exactly how we should view that in terms of what it does to us, yet another question.
Ralif Redhammer
Legend
Definitely. And it's fascinating to see how this shifted when the 80s came back and you started seeing comedic and semi-comedic takes, like Armed and Dangerous, and the Police Academy and Lethal Weapon series.
Which takes us to this. The 80s was filled with problematic power dynamics, bad relationship models, bad dating advice, and stuff that's just plain squicky in hindsight. John Hughes' movies, just about every John Cusack film, and the list goes on from there.
That seen in Blade Runner gets extra problematic when viewed from the fact that she is a replicant, and her even being able to properly give consent is called into question. Then again, Deckard may or may not be a replicant himself, so it's all kinds of messed up and complicated.
Which takes us to this. The 80s was filled with problematic power dynamics, bad relationship models, bad dating advice, and stuff that's just plain squicky in hindsight. John Hughes' movies, just about every John Cusack film, and the list goes on from there.
That seen in Blade Runner gets extra problematic when viewed from the fact that she is a replicant, and her even being able to properly give consent is called into question. Then again, Deckard may or may not be a replicant himself, so it's all kinds of messed up and complicated.
Manbearcat
Legend
I think you guys are underplaying the “I fight the law and the law one”, revolutionary ethos that has undergirded America since time immemorial.
A culture that worships outlaws like Jesse James, Butch Cassidy, Billy the Kid, Wild Bill Hickok, and Prohibition Era Outlaws (Bonnie and Clyde, Ma Barker, Baby Face Nelson et all) as much as it reveres truly meaningful subversives such as George Washington, John Adams, Thomas Jefferson, Abraham Lincoln, John Brown, Frederick Douglas, Nat Turner, Harriett Tubman, Susan Anthony, Rosa Parks, Jack Johnson, Ali, and MLK…well…that culture is telling you something…
Bad boys/girls that push back against establishment, plutocracy (even if only in perception) and government reach…even if the underclass that reveres them is collateral damage = WOOOOOO (cue Rick Flair).
A culture that worships outlaws like Jesse James, Butch Cassidy, Billy the Kid, Wild Bill Hickok, and Prohibition Era Outlaws (Bonnie and Clyde, Ma Barker, Baby Face Nelson et all) as much as it reveres truly meaningful subversives such as George Washington, John Adams, Thomas Jefferson, Abraham Lincoln, John Brown, Frederick Douglas, Nat Turner, Harriett Tubman, Susan Anthony, Rosa Parks, Jack Johnson, Ali, and MLK…well…that culture is telling you something…
Bad boys/girls that push back against establishment, plutocracy (even if only in perception) and government reach…even if the underclass that reveres them is collateral damage = WOOOOOO (cue Rick Flair).
