Evil with a Capital "E"

[LostSoul]

In my game, I allow everything supernatural to detect as "Evil". The Detect spells don't really detect Evil, just the supernatural. So Celestials and "good" supernatural creatures are Evil. I also let Smite and Holy weapons work against all supernatural creatures. So a Paladin can Smite a Celestial.

And this has worked fine over the past six or eight years.

Next would be cost - even as a first level spell, the cost of enough detect Law or Good spells to check everybody would be prohibative. Lots of people enter a city.

If you have the gate open for 8 hours, you can cover that entire time with 4 3rd level Wizards (with Int 11). I guess it depends on your reading of the Detect spells (what happens when somebody new enters an area you've been focusing on), though.

 

[I'm A Banana]

Eh....

Like the Iron DM said, there's too many of them. Random killing and cruelty create more of the same...the only way to help the cause of good is to treat even the evil with honor and respect.

You start forbidding entrace to the city on the basis of alignment, and you not only have people sneaking into the city (LE or even LN types would likely set up underground railroads and forge documents), you'd also have one mighty small city...and the moment you get attacked by the Orcs and a few people get killed off, welp, there goes your town.

Besides, even if nobody evil or chaotic is let in, there's nothing stopping them from being born there. Alignment isn't genetic, after all.

IMC, I ask people to first tell me what their character believes, without using alignment terms. Then, I assign an alignment based on those beliefs. Usually, I don't even tell them what alignment they have. Alignment is defined by intention, and not by action...if you forment a rebellion in an ordered way, you're Lawful. If you kill innocents but believe that nobody in inherently innocent, you're Good or Neutral. Finally, the detect spells do reveal your alignment, but you don't know what affects it.

Basically, I do it as it may be in the Real World. There is an absolute Good, Evil, Chaos, Law, and Neutrality. You, however, don't know what those absolutes are, and must rely on guessing or messages from divine bieings to tell you what they are. And the messeages of the Celestials and the Fiends contradict....

I know what the absolutes are. You do not. You have a relation to those absolutes, but the only way you can tell it is by the detect spells, and even then, just because something's evil doesn't mean you should kill it.

Remember, someone who is Lawful need not be Lawful 24-7, all the time. They can do a few Chaotic things and still retain lawful alignment. Good people can do evil, and evil people aren't always looking to kill and maim people.

 

[CWD]

PHB, pg 88, Table 6-1 lists humans as "Neutral", noting that there is variation, but that this would be the most common alignment.

Continue to read the alignment descriptions on Pg 88 and 89. Your typical, run of the mill person would be neutral.

The bit about humans not tending toward neutrality is on page 13.

Image that! A contradition in the PH!

 

[Edena_of_Neith]

(sings)

We have trouble, trouble, right here in River City;
Trouble with a capital E, and that rhymes with P, and that stands for pool!

 

[LostSoul]

You start forbidding entrace to the city on the basis of alignment, and you not only have people sneaking into the city (LE or even LN types would likely set up underground railroads and forge documents), you'd also have one mighty small city...and the moment you get attacked by the Orcs and a few people get killed off, welp, there goes your town.

You've got your bit of underground, sure. But most of the people in the town aren't going to like them very much. The people won't be sympathetic. Not a good thing.

If the town is well ordered and known for being good to good people, good people from all over are going to want to enter this town. A simple farmer from a corrupt city? Head over to Haven. An escaped slave who had never hurt anyone? Head over to Haven. Lots of people are going to want to live there.

They could set up a merchant's quarter for foreigners to trade. So nobody's really got any reason to mess with how the city works. (Unless you're the Chaotic Evil prince, kicked out because of your evil ways. You want your rightful lands back! Or maybe this town won't let in chaotic or neutral refugees during times of great trouble. A Chaotic Good adventurer might see this as injustice and try to change things. Hmmm... a few adventure hooks. Cool.)

 

[nsruf]

No, there shouldn't, for a number of very good reasons...

First, remember that by the PHB and DMG, the vast majority of people are neutral.

Only if you talk about humans. Elven and dwarven cities could get away with alignment screening much easier. And I don't think there is a contradiction in the PHB, BTW. If humans have no particular tendency, their average alignment will be neutral, but still only 1 in 9 humans will be.

Only folks who are willing to stick their necks out for the cause - willing to act to support the ideal - have other alignments.

More reason to screen for these exceptional individuals, then! Detecting as evil alone should be a criminal offense, if only the evil top 10 show up on the magicla monitor. After all, they will be responsible for 90% of the crimes.

People who simply want to live their lives quietly are neutral. Screening out non-lawfuls would empty your city, and cripple trade.

Screening for law was only an example. Al's suggestion seems to do the trick, i.e. exclude evil and chaotic characters.

Next would be cost - even as a first level spell, the cost of enough detect Law or Good spells to check everybody would be prohibative. Lots of people enter a city.

If a 1st level paladin can detect evil for free, I don't see why there could not be a class doing the same for chaos. And a magic item that constantly detects evil would not be terribly expensive for the benefit it provides. Also, IIRC, the spell symbol can be set to react to certian alignments - so make it known that there is such a thing up (preferably non-lethal effect) and you will seldom have to replace it.

IMO, making alignment screening work is simply an engineering problem.

Lastly would come inefficacy - Let's say you check everyone at teh gate with Detect Law. What do you find? Only lawful people enter by the gate....because all the chaotics will find another route.

So you have to check inside as well, sometimes. And you have a sure evidence of a crime! This will at least keep the remaining criminal elements off the street.

What, you think a chaotic is only going to come in where you want him to?

No, but without a ring of mind-shielding or non-detection cast on him, he will last for about 30 minutes.

Also, it isn't as if only having lawful people in town would actually stop trouble. Lawful doesn't mean placid. A paladin will quite certainly start trouble if he sees Evil afoot. Now, instead of simple thuggery, you've got people causing trouble over things they strongly believe in. Yeah, that'll be a gain

You have this already if you allow anybody into the city, right? So you manage to reduce petty crimes (murder, robbery, etc.) and acts commited by the criminally insane (i.e. CE). Sounds like a bargain to me.

So, it's expensive, probably won't work, and will cripple your economy if it does. Doesn't sound like a very good option to me.

I was not saying that every society should or would do this, but what bothers me is that it NEVER happens (at least not in official settings and supplements) and people just pretend it isn't a problem.

And we haven't even touched the question whether alignment depends on your intentions or your acts. The latter is easier to handle, but if the answer is so clear cut, being evil should be a crime because it is a 100% correct indicator of past criminal behaviour.

Sorry for ranting so much, but the alignment system is one of the few things I really don't like about 3E.

 

[LostSoul]

I really like the idea of a walled city or town that scans for alignments at the gate. It creates a lot of adventure hooks!

-PCs having to sneak in
-PCs having to sneak somebody out (after gaining legit access)
-PCs setting up/participating in smuggling, spying, and sabotage
-Political tension between neighbouring towns (of different alignments)
-Trying to solve a murder or a crime in the city
-Being blamed for a murder or a crime in the city

Just a few off the top of my head.