KnowTheToe
First Post
Al said:
your right, but he sure is a lovable character
Exactly how dumb is a 7 Int?
- Thread starter Arravis
- Start date
your right, but he sure is a lovable character
Having just finished administering an IQ test, I thought that I'd jump in....
IMO, IQ and D&D are disassociable measures for two reasons. Firstly, traditional IQs are a very limited measure despite the importance society puts in them. They *do* predict academic success fairly well through about 12th grade, after that, they are not much use IMO. I know several people with high IQs that are not very functional. On the other hand, I know several more individuals with IQs in the Low Average range (about 85) that are making 3x the money that I am. IQ does not account for social skills in any meaningful way, and because of this, it is a very limited measure of a person. Secondly, IQ and D&D Int are two different distributions statistically. Because of this, the extremes of the range (2-6/14-18) are not comparable. For example, an Int 2 animal is a fully functional creature and can learn and adapt. A 40 IQ (generally the lower limit of IQs) individual is not functional by any means and cannot adapt in any meaningful way.
For these reasons, I encourage my player to think of IQ and Int as two very different measures. I feel that Int is best conceptualized as a simple indication of a character's memory and reasoning skills. Weaknesses in these areas are easy to roleplay. But it is much harder to play a character well that has an Int higher than your own IMO An Int 7 character, IMO, would either not remember facts, names, etc. or would recall them inaccurately. He/she would not see obvious connections and would not be able to inference/deduce well (e.g., "Wooosh" [over the head] types).
Just my 2p.
Regards,
Mean DM
[edited for poor spelling, clarity, and errors]
Actually, the “Average” range of the most common IQ test (WISC-III/WAIS-III) falls from 90-109. “Average” in these tests are defined as 50% of the normative sample. There are other tests (SB-IV, DAS, CAS, TONI, CTONI, UNIT, MAT, etc), but they are all more the less the same in terms of what "Average" is.Arravis said:
Small nit pick....."Offically" by who's standard?. The standard that is most commonly used in the US is from the AAMR. And I believe most other countries share the same model. They define Mental Retardation having an IQ below 70. There are other conditions for this, but they are not pertinent here.cptg1481 said:
IMO, IQ and D&D are disassociable measures for two reasons. Firstly, traditional IQs are a very limited measure despite the importance society puts in them. They *do* predict academic success fairly well through about 12th grade, after that, they are not much use IMO. I know several people with high IQs that are not very functional. On the other hand, I know several more individuals with IQs in the Low Average range (about 85) that are making 3x the money that I am. IQ does not account for social skills in any meaningful way, and because of this, it is a very limited measure of a person. Secondly, IQ and D&D Int are two different distributions statistically. Because of this, the extremes of the range (2-6/14-18) are not comparable. For example, an Int 2 animal is a fully functional creature and can learn and adapt. A 40 IQ (generally the lower limit of IQs) individual is not functional by any means and cannot adapt in any meaningful way.
For these reasons, I encourage my player to think of IQ and Int as two very different measures. I feel that Int is best conceptualized as a simple indication of a character's memory and reasoning skills. Weaknesses in these areas are easy to roleplay. But it is much harder to play a character well that has an Int higher than your own IMO
An Int 7 character, IMO, would either not remember facts, names, etc. or would recall them inaccurately. He/she would not see obvious connections and would not be able to inference/deduce well (e.g., "Wooosh" [over the head] types).Just my 2p.
Regards,
Mean DM
[edited for poor spelling, clarity, and errors]
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Re: Bell Curve
The standard deviation for the roll of d6 is SQRT(17.5/6), or about 1.71. So the standard deviation for 3d6 is SQRT(3) times that, or about 2.96. That means that the standard score for a 3d6 roll of 7 is -3.5/2.96, or about -1.18.
The Encyclopaedia Britannica tells me that the standard deviation for IQ is 15. And by definition the average is 100.
Taken together, those facts imply that and INT of 7 corresponds to an IQ of 82. Borderline retarded.
On that basis, an INT of 3 would be an IQ of 62, and and INT of 18 a 138. That's a pretty good range. No-one wants to play a severely retarded character, and few can play an extremely gifted one.
Regards,
Agback
cptg1481 said:
The standard deviation for the roll of d6 is SQRT(17.5/6), or about 1.71. So the standard deviation for 3d6 is SQRT(3) times that, or about 2.96. That means that the standard score for a 3d6 roll of 7 is -3.5/2.96, or about -1.18.
The Encyclopaedia Britannica tells me that the standard deviation for IQ is 15. And by definition the average is 100.
Taken together, those facts imply that and INT of 7 corresponds to an IQ of 82. Borderline retarded.
On that basis, an INT of 3 would be an IQ of 62, and and INT of 18 a 138. That's a pretty good range. No-one wants to play a severely retarded character, and few can play an extremely gifted one.
Regards,
Agback
Re: Re: Bell Curve
An IQ of 82 falls in the lower end of the Low Average range (12th %ile). The Borderline range is 70-79. Sorry to nit pick Agback, but hey, this is my profession. Here are the qualitiative descriptions of the Wechsler Scales:
130+ Very Superior
120-129 Superior
110-119 High Average
90-109 Average
80-89 Low Average
70-79 Borderline
69 and below Intellectually Deficient (Politically correct for MR)
Regards,
Mean DM
Agback said:
An IQ of 82 falls in the lower end of the Low Average range (12th %ile). The Borderline range is 70-79. Sorry to nit pick Agback, but hey, this is my profession.
Here are the qualitiative descriptions of the Wechsler Scales:130+ Very Superior
120-129 Superior
110-119 High Average
90-109 Average
80-89 Low Average
70-79 Borderline
69 and below Intellectually Deficient (Politically correct for MR)
Regards,
Mean DM
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William Ronald
Explorer
I believe the character should have some difficulty creating or understanding complex plans, some difficulty learning new tasks, a possibly poor memory, and maybe some problems with finding his way around a new town. However, the character should have a lot of will power, so would not be as easy to dupe as some might believe. (If a friend has convinced him to stay on guard duty, he will likely try to remain on duty.) He may also be extremely likable and somewhat sensitive to the emotional states of his friends.
He may have good judgement on interpersonal matters, considering his wisdom and charisma. He may be in awe of those with much greater intellectual abilities. (He would probably have trouble keeping up with a complex plan made by a character of much greater intelligence and wisdom.)
One of the challenges for the other PCs is how to explain complex situations to the character. This may result in some opportunities for role playing humor -- especially when mistaken identities are involved.
He may have good judgement on interpersonal matters, considering his wisdom and charisma. He may be in awe of those with much greater intellectual abilities. (He would probably have trouble keeping up with a complex plan made by a character of much greater intelligence and wisdom.)
One of the challenges for the other PCs is how to explain complex situations to the character. This may result in some opportunities for role playing humor -- especially when mistaken identities are involved.
Tristissima
Explorer
What about playing the character as the dumb side of the main character from Flowers for Algernon? He knew what to do to live, knew what worked, but had no clue why. He got along great with people (though that was more because he didn't understand that they were mocking him, but still . . .) I'd go into more detail, but I'm beginning to lose myself to the siren song of my bed, so I'll just say that that character was the first thing I thought of when I read the first post in this thread.
IQ, Int and Stupidity
The stupidity, to put it bluntly, is to those people making the connection.
Int is not equal to IQ/10
This cannot be emphasised enough. The simple fact is that even using the 'average' method (3d6), the chances of getting an 18 are 1 in 216. On the standard Mensa IQ scale, the chance of having an IQ of 180 is roughly 1 in 1,000,000.
Conversely, the chances of getting a 3 Int are 1 in 216. Yet an IQ 30 is so severely retarded that you cannot even talk, let alone read or write. It is clearly wrong that say that 0.5% of the population cannot even talk a single language (discuss...)
Furthermore, the average Int is 10.5 (as discussed before), whereas the average IQ is usually taken to be 100.
The fact is that the bell curve of Int does not and cannot map onto the bell curve of IQ. Int 7 is probably far better equated to around an IQ in the low 80s or perhaps high 70s. But Int is emphatically not simply IQ/10.
The stupidity, to put it bluntly, is to those people making the connection.
Int is not equal to IQ/10
This cannot be emphasised enough. The simple fact is that even using the 'average' method (3d6), the chances of getting an 18 are 1 in 216. On the standard Mensa IQ scale, the chance of having an IQ of 180 is roughly 1 in 1,000,000.
Conversely, the chances of getting a 3 Int are 1 in 216. Yet an IQ 30 is so severely retarded that you cannot even talk, let alone read or write. It is clearly wrong that say that 0.5% of the population cannot even talk a single language (discuss...)
Furthermore, the average Int is 10.5 (as discussed before), whereas the average IQ is usually taken to be 100.
The fact is that the bell curve of Int does not and cannot map onto the bell curve of IQ. Int 7 is probably far better equated to around an IQ in the low 80s or perhaps high 70s. But Int is emphatically not simply IQ/10.
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