Exalted Battleque for d20

[HeavenShallBurn]

As the d20 games I DMed and played began to reach higher levels I noticed that combat became increasingly static with the increase in attacks when arguably as power increased it should have gotten more open. So I got the Exalted 2e book on the advice of a friend, and while it's a beautiful game and its designers made a masterpiece I've never really been able to get into the Storyteller system, but I love the way their combat system works. So I've been working on converting it to d20. This is the third revision, the first and second were on the right track but needed adjusting. I think this one still needs adjusting too but it seems to work so far in the playtests.

*The system is based on ticks each tick is equivalent to 1 second.

*Initiative is replaced with a Reflex Save, the highest reflex save rolled counts as 0 and acts first on tick 0. All the other reflex saves are subtracted from the highest save and that result is how many ticks until their first action, any result greater than 6 is rounded down to 6.

Action Types
*Not an Action (0)- these don't even take any time, basically there for those little things that nobody thought to spell out and the DM judges aren't worth worrying about.
*Reflexive (0)- these don't take any time and you can take them whether it is your tick to act on or not but you can only take one in any given tick.
*Free Action (0)- like a reflexive action but can only be taken on your tick to act.
*Partial Action (3)- taking a partial action sets the next action back 3 ticks and cannot be reduce below 1 by high BAB and only one may be taken per tick without flurrying.
*Move Equivalent Action (3)- standard DMG definition, takes 3 ticks and cannot be reduced by high BAB
*Standard Action (4)- taking a standard action sets the next action back 4 ticks and cannot be reduce below 1 by high BAB and only one may be taken per tick without flurrying.
*Full round action (6)- taking a full round action sets the next action back 6 ticks and cannot be reduce below 1 by high BAB and only one may be taken per tick without flurrying.

Combat Actions-Not complete(can't find the next page)
*Aim (3)- can be used with melee and ranged attacks. For each sequential tick of aiming adds a +1 bonus to attack bonus and increases the critical threat range of the character's next attack by the same amount.
*Attack (4)- standard action- a single attack
*Flurry (varies)- a quick series of attacks or other actions rolled on a single tick. Any creature can flurry a number of actions equal to half its number of natural attacks without penalty, afterward penalties acrue. Base speed is equal to the fastest action speed taken, modified if over the limit by a cumulative +1 for every action after this point. The penalty for flurrying more than 1/2 of a creature's natural acctacks on a single tick is applied to the attack bonus or skill check and is equal to the number of actions in the flurry for the first action increasing by one for each subsequent action.

Movement Rate Adjustment
*As combat time is now measured in ticks so is tactical speed which must be converted from standard D&D speed per round.
*Speed per tick = (normal speed/5) x size modifier !!if you get a fraction round up!!
*Size modifier to speed - assumes medium size as baseline for creatures and characters, this equals 1 for each size category above this add .5 to the modifier.

BAB modifies action speed
*for every 6 BAB subtract 1 from all action times except those that specifically aren't reduced by high BAB

 

[Yair]

I take it that the battle-que is continued, so after you finish your action you present your next action and add the cost to the current count. How does that work in practice, as players must both resolve their action and decide their next action during their turn in the spotlight?

This idea sounds good in principle. I like how you connected it to Reflex too.
Why have you chosen a 6-tick round of all numbers? Why not for example 10-ticks, one for each second?
I'm not sure how movement operates in this scheme. I think that's the largest issue in terms of gameplay if you allow players to change the actions they've commited to. I'm not sure if you'd want to allow that or not, though.

Thinking about it, the seperation into standard/move/full actions doesn't seem to fit well into this system. How about:

The Battleque System
The battleque system is based on counting ticks, where each tick is equivalent to 1 second. The DM counts the ticks (seconds) as the combat unfolds, with the players interrupting him when their time comes up to resolve their actions.

When combat begins, each combatant must first determine his Flatfooted Time. Each combatant must make a Reflex Save. The highest save rolled has a Flatfooted Time of zero. All other reflex saves are subtracted from the highest save and that result is how many ticks each one is delayed by, up to a maximum of 6.
For as long as a character's Flatofooted Time has not elapsed, he is considered flat-footed.
Once a character's Faltfooted Time has elapsed, he can commit to an action. Add the appropriate time it takes to accomplish the action to the current count. When that time arrives, the character gets to resolve his action and declare a new one.

EITHER: If circumstances have changed so that his action is no longer relevant, his action automatically fails. Only once the action is resolved (or failed) can the character commit to a new one - in the heat of battle, it takes time to realize you should change actions.
OR: At any given time in the count, a character can choose to abandon its current action and commit to a new one. Since some time has elapsed since he tried to begin that action, it may be partially completed if the DM so chooses. For example, the character may have moved part of his movement.

Actions (ticks):
*Not an Action (0): these don't take any appreciable time. These include things like talking, making an attack of opportunity, and so on. You can make a Not-an-Action out of your turn.
*Immediate (0): These take very little time. You can take them whether it is your tick to act or not, but you can only take one in any given tick. You can combine them with other actions.
*Free (0): These take very little time. You can take them only when it is your tick to act, but you may combine them with another action on that tick. You may combine them with other actions, but not with an Immediate action. [Not applicable if the "OR" option above is chosen.]
*Standard Action (3): You make some action that takes up considerable time, such as activating a magic item, dismissing a spell, feinting in combat, controlling a frightened mount, or so on. The list includes most of D&D's Standard and Move actions.
*Melee Attack (3 or less): You make a melee attack. This abstracts several swings and parries for a melee attack, and taking aim. The time to make an attack is reduced to 2 at BAB 6, and to 1 at BAB 12 or more.
*Ranged Attack (4 or less): You make a ranged attack. This abstracts taking aim as well as firing, but not loading the weapon. The time to make an attack is reduced to 3 at BAB 6, and to 2 at BAB 12 or more.
*Full Round Action (6): These actions take a minute to complete. These include delivering a coup de grace, lighting a torch, loading a heavy crossbow, and so on. [It does NOT include making a full-attack, which is replaced by simply moving to the opponent and making Attacks.]
*Move (1 or more): A character can move at his Speed/5 per tick. Count only whole squares (5' gains). [Why did you choose to engagne in byznatine Size-based calculations? This rule will result in a slightly faster speed than D&D, but that's not too bad.]
* 5' Step (3): You may move a single 5' square very carefully. This does not draw an attack of opportunity.

Movement-and-Attack: You can combine moving with attacking with a melee weapon. [Otherwise a person could always avoid attacks by making a 5' step.] For example, if you swing a sword at an opponent which then tries to run away you can pursue him without prolonging the time it takes you to attack. Note that moving away from you may also draw attacks of opporunity. Also note that this does not speed up your attacks, it just means you can combine a movement with an attack.

Example of Play:
Bearly the Barbarian (Ref +3, Speed 40') is attacking Wizband the Wizard (Ref +1, Speed 30') and his goons (Ref +1, Speed 30'). They start off with Bearly breaking into the room, the wizard and his goons standing some 40' away from him.
Flatfooting: Everyone rolls 10, so Bearly starts at count 0 and the Wizband and his goons at count 2.
2: Bearly charges the nearest goon. He moves 40' (which takes 5 ticks), combining it with a Melee Attack (as soon as one is within range).
3: Wizbang starts incanting a spell, his guards draw swords (taking 3 ticks).
6: Wizbang's goons spread out to defend him. The move 5' to intercept Bearly while making a Melee Attack (3 ticks). Wizbang himself completes the casting of his spell, but Bearly makes his saving throw. Not certain how to apporach the wizard casting another spell - must he wait 3 ticks between spells? At any rate, let's have Wizband move 20' behind his guards (3 ticks).
7: Bearly and the goons have contrasting actions - the goons want to meet 35' feet from the entrance at count 7, while Bearly just moved 40' from the entrance. The DM rules Bearly was faster, and mumbles he should fix this loophole.
Bearly can now attack - he connects with one goon, toppling him. He lunges forward, letting the others AoO him as he heads to attack the wizard. By this point Wizbang only moved 1 tick, 6 feet, so Bearly only needs move 1 tick to reach him. But he needs time to resolve his swing, which won't be resolved for 3 more ticks.
The two remaining goons can also make AoOs now, as these are not an action. They do, both hitting but not subduing Bearly.
8: Seeing that Bearly is hot on his tail, Wizbang ceases to run and now starts incanting again. He drawn an AoO from Bearly, which misses.
9: The guards can now attack Bearly. Both attack him, and declate they'll do so again in 3 ticks.
10: Bearly finally gets to attack Wizbang, killing him.
The guards disperse, Bearly doesn't bother chasing them. Had the battle continued, the wizard would have offed his spell at count 11, the goons attacked Bearly at count 12, and Bearly attacked Wizbang again at count 13.

Conlusion: Need to have way to resolve simultanous and conflicting actions, need to decide how to deal with spellcasting (probably requiring 3 ticks before casting next spell), need to implement charging and running under these rules. Also, I don't think flat-footing will matter much in this scheme, except for ranged attacks (it may matter if character cannot change their action and only loose the flat-footing after their first action... but that's strange).
I'm also concerned with the small number of attacks at high level, and I'm not sure whether I like the effects of combining movement with melee attacks.

 

[magic_gathering2001]

We did something like this a wile ago here's the thread:
http://www.enworld.org/showthread.php?t=170545

We ended up with getting rid of full round actions entirely and saying a standard action took time based on your BAB:
Action Time
0-5 7 ticks
6-10 6 ticks
11-16 5 ticks
16-19 4 ticks
20+ 3 ticks

edit:and movement was done per tick as opposed to all at once

 

[HeavenShallBurn]

I should have explained better but I only found two pages of my four pages of notes from the playtest session. The idea is a direct conversion of the Exalted 2e BattleQue which my group liked.

I take it that the battle-que is continued, so after you finish your action you present your next action and add the cost to the current count. How does that work in practice, as players must both resolve their action and decide their next action during their turn in the spotlight?

The count starts with whoever made the highest reflex save, they're zero. Everyone else has to wait until their tick comes up to act. When you act the number beside the action is how many ticks until you can act again. They don't need to decide both their current and next action, the first action determines how long until they can make their next action. All actions taken in a tick are resolved at the end of the tick before moving on to the next one.

This idea sounds good in principle. I like how you connected it to Reflex too.
Why have you chosen a 6-tick round of all numbers? Why not for example 10-ticks, one for each second? I'm not sure how movement operates in this scheme. I think that's the largest issue in terms of gameplay if you allow players to change the actions they've commited to. I'm not sure if you'd want to allow that or not, though.

Why 6 seconds?-I wanted to keep the length of the combat round the same at 6 seconds, and conveniently Exalted caps the basic action types at 6 seconds as well and it seems to work. By keeping the 6 second round as a basis I can generally make sure people get the same number of attacks to start with.
Movement?-That's one of the things I should have spelled out but couldn't find the sheet they were on. I included the standard/move equivalent/full actions because there are many things(especially spells, abilities, etc.) that use those as a reference time. But basically I made move a reflexive action so that you can move up to your move/5 ft automatically in any tick. If you want to move faster you make a hustle(3) or a dash(4), these aren't considered reflexive so you can only take them on your tick but a hustle is a double move and a dash is a Movex5 and neither of them have to be in a straight line.
Changing Actions?-up until it's your tick to act it doesn't matter you can change your mind as much as you want, once it's your tick to act there's no changing action, all actions occuring on the same tick are considered simultaneous.

Thinking about it, the seperation into standard/move/full actions doesn't seem to fit well into this system.

No it doesn't really fit well but I haven't found a way to make it work in d20 without them because of the other actions keyed off them for timing.

The battleque system is based on counting ticks, where each tick is equivalent to 1 second. The DM counts the ticks (seconds) as the combat unfolds, with the players interrupting him when their time comes up to resolve their actions.

Actually counting it out loud is the hardest way to make it work. Since it was originally for Exalted I use the Battlewheel to track timing. Basically it's a big circle divided into ten pie-pieces with a marker for each player and each group of enemies that is placed into the appropriate section and a marker to indicated which tick you're on currently. You rotate the indicator around the circle one tick at a time and as you hit each marker that group/groups makes it's move and shift their pieces down the appropriate number of sections to the next tick where they can act. I use an old board game spinner with the sections recolored and the spinner indicates which tick is current.

When combat begins, each combatant must first determine his Flatfooted Time. Each combatant must make a Reflex Save. The highest save rolled has a Flatfooted Time of zero. All other reflex saves are subtracted from the highest save and that result is how many ticks each one is delayed by, up to a maximum of 6. For as long as a character's Flatofooted Time has not elapsed, he is considered flat-footed.

That's one of those details I should have added. I considered the initial time between the first action and the second to be flat-footed, the equivalent of the surprise round. But I actually like your version better.

EITHER: If circumstances have changed so that his action is no longer relevant, his action automatically fails. Only once the action is resolved (or failed) can the character commit to a new one - in the heat of battle, it takes time to realize you should change actions.
OR: At any given time in the count, a character can choose to abandon its current action and commit to a new one. Since some time has elapsed since he tried to begin that action, it may be partially completed if the DM so chooses. For example, the character may have moved part of his movement.

Hopefully I cleared this part up at the beginning of the post but I'll cover it again just in case. Actions are taken and resolved on each individual tick, and all of the actions within a tick are considered to happen simultaneously they disregard the effect of "previous" rolls during that tick. So for example two swordsmen can strike each other down at the same time. When an action is taken the number, say a standard attack(4), the attack happens that tick and is resolved then and (4) is how many ticks until he can next act other than reflexive(immediate) actions or Not-An-Actions. "Aim" is the only action I included that occurs over multiple ticks and that can be aborted in favor of an attack or other action at any time before it ends, but it's the only such action.

*Not an Action (0): these don't take any appreciable time. These include things like talking, making an attack of opportunity, and so on. You can make a Not-an-Action out of your turn.
*Immediate (0): These take very little time. You can take them whether it is your tick to act or not, but you can only take one in any given tick. You can combine them with other actions.
*Free (0): These take very little time. You can take them only when it is your tick to act, but you may combine them with another action on that tick. You may combine them with other actions, but not with an Immediate action. [Not applicable if the "OR" option above is chosen.]

Basically what I said, note I didn't include the can combine them with other actions because I included the "flurry" action which allows ANY series of actions to be combined on a single tick.

*Standard Action (3): You make some action that takes up considerable time, such as activating a magic item, dismissing a spell, feinting in combat, controlling a frightened mount, or so on. The list includes most of D&D's Standard and Move actions.

Better wording than mine. Notice I have made the Move action a reflexive one move equivalent exists solely as a time-keeping device for other actions that use that standard. This is very necessary for combat using a battleque to free up combat and make it more mobile than the D&D standard, otherwise movement in combat would happen far too slowly.

*Melee Attack (3 or less): You make a melee attack. This abstracts several swings and parries for a melee attack, and taking aim. The time to make an attack is reduced to 2 at BAB 6, and to 1 at BAB 12 or more.
*Ranged Attack (4 or less): You make a ranged attack. This abstracts taking aim as well as firing, but not loading the weapon. The time to make an attack is reduced to 3 at BAB 6, and to 2 at BAB 12 or more.

I kept the two types of attack together so as to not penalize ranged combat even further than it already is in the damage arena. Notice I specifed how EACH 6BAB reduce action time for an attack by 1 tick rather than just reducing it at 6 and 12. This is to facilitate campaigns past 20 where characters of this power level should keep increasing their number of potential attacks down to the minimum time of 1 tick.

*Full Round Action (6): These actions take a minute to complete. These include delivering a coup de grace, lighting a torch, loading a heavy crossbow, and so on. [It does NOT include making a full-attack, which is replaced by simply moving to the opponent and making Attacks.]

Good, quite good, however the closest equivalent to a full attack is a "flurry" where they can take multiple actions, including attack, in a single tick at a penalty directly related to how many actions they take and how many ticks those would normally set them back. It means that characters can actually make more attacks at an earlier level than their standard D&D equivalent per round.

*Move (1 or more): A character can move at his Speed/5 per tick. Count only whole squares (5' gains). [Why did you choose to engagne in byznatine Size-based calculations? This rule will result in a slightly faster speed than D&D, but that's not too bad.]
* 5' Step (3): You may move a single 5' square very carefully. This does not draw an attack of opportunity.

-Note my changes have made Move a reflexive action rather than an action with a time. This really frees up characters to move about and makes combat much more fluid. It was taken from the Exalted system that I'm modeling this on.
-The size-based modifier is necessary, though I didn't find this out until the third play-test where a Huge black dragon was reduced to an utterly snail-like pace by the system. Without the size modifier a Huge black dragon, a creature more than 12ft high at the shoulder would be reduced to moving 12ft in a tick that's just about 1 step. Whereas a medium human would move 6ft(rounded down to 5) in the same time, which is just about right for a marching pace of 2 steps per second. So I added the modifier in order that a Large black dragon would walk at a pace of 18ft per second and a Huge one at 24ft per second. Each at roughly the same number of steps per second up the size chart to clean up movement rates.
-It's also not byzantine if you don't try to calculate it on the fly. Tactically "(Move/5) x Size modifier" replaces the standard D&D Move speed and it should be pre-done and marked on the character sheet in place of that figure.

Movement-and-Attack: You can combine moving with attacking with a melee weapon. [Otherwise a person could always avoid attacks by making a 5' step.] For example, if you swing a sword at an opponent which then tries to run away you can pursue him without prolonging the time it takes you to attack. Note that moving away from you may also draw attacks of opporunity. Also note that this does not speed up your attacks, it just means you can combine a movement with an attack.

Since movement up to your base speed is now a reflexive action you no longer have that problem. A single movement at base speed can be made any time and if he moves further you can "flurry" a "hustle" or "dash" with an attack to catch up.

Will cover example combat in next post this one is already getting long enough

Conlusion: Need to have way to resolve simultanous and conflicting actions, need to decide how to deal with spellcasting (probably requiring 3 ticks before casting next spell), need to implement charging and running under these rules. Also, I don't think flat-footing will matter much in this scheme, except for ranged attacks (it may matter if character cannot change their action and only loose the flat-footing after their first action... but that's strange).
I'm also concerned with the small number of attacks at high level, and I'm not sure whether I like the effects of combining movement with melee attacks.

Spellcasting-I have been playing with how long spellcasting should take. Exalted sets it at five ticks but that seems too long. 3 seems slightly too short, I think I'll default it to 4 ticks unless the spell specifies a different time.
Charging and Running-Running is covered by the "Hustle" and "Dash" actions which I had to find the page I'd written them on, it's covered earlier in the post. They're not reflexive actions so they have an action time, but by flurrying them with one or more attacks it actually takes the place of charging and they don't have the straight line restriction either. I realize this is a major departure but I am trying to loosen up combat and make it more energetic and movement oriented.
Number of Attacks-I understand, I forgot to specify it in the "Attack" entry and put it at the end of the post. Every 6BAB reduce most action times, including attack, by one tick. Producing the same initial attack curve but continuing further past 20BAB to the minimum where an attack only has an action time of 1 at 24BAB.
Combining Movement and Attacks-I understand it if you're hesitant about this, my version is a major departure from the d20 standard. However its also a result of high level combat becoming more tedious and basically just "I step 5ft and make a full attack" I'm actively trying to break that standard and get more movement along with those attacks rather than either you stand still and make multiple attacks or move and make 1 attack.

 

[HeavenShallBurn]

BattleQue Reworked

BattleQue d20 Combat System

This combat system measures time in abstract units called ticks, each tick is by default approximately one second long. Combat always begins at tick 0 and advances forward one tick at a time until the end of the battle.

When characters take an action that would require the use of combat time to resolve their player must make a Reflex save to initiate combat. Doing this is an obviously hostile act that alerts everyone that can perceive the character and allows them to join the combat with Reflex saves of their own. Characters who are not aware may not take combat actions until they become aware at which point they can make a Reflex save to join the combat in progress.

When combat begins all combatants roll a Reflex save to determine their Flat-Footed Time. The highest save rolled has a Flat-Footed Time of 0 and acts on tick 0 (this may include multiple characters if their saves tie). All other Reflex saves are subtracted from the highest save and that result is the number of ticks until their Flat-Footed Time elapses, up to a maximum of 6. During their Flat-Footed Time a character may not take a combat action and is considered Flat-Footed. Characters who were unaware at the start of the combat may join the combat in progress once they become aware, at which point they roll a Reflex save and must wait their Flat-Footed Time before acting.

Characters act for the first time in combat when the tick count reaches their Flat-Footed Time. At this point they are no longer considered Flat-Footed and may take any applicable combat action, but they must act. All actions taken in the same tick are considered to occur simultaneously and are resolved at the end of the tick disregarding the effects of “previous” rolls. The action time of the actions taken by each character determine how many ticks they must wait to act again.

Actions Types(ticks):
Not an Action(0): these don't take any appreciable time. These include things like talking, making an attack of opportunity, and so on. You can make a Not-an-Action out of your turn.
Immediate Action(0): These take very little time. You can take them whether it is your tick to act or not, but you can only take one in any given tick.
Free(0): These take very little time. You can take them only when it is your tick to act.
Standard(4): You make some action that takes up considerable time, such as activating a magic item, dismissing a spell, feinting in combat, controlling a frightened mount, or so on. The list includes most of D&D's Standard actions. This action may be taken once per tick without flurrying.
Full-Round Action(6): These actions take a minute to complete. These include delivering a coup de grace, lighting a torch, loading a heavy crossbow, and so on. [It does NOT include making a full-attack, which is replaced by Flurrying.]

Combat Actions(ticks or action type):
Move(Immediate): A character can move at (Speed/5)xSize Modifier per tick. Count only whole squares and round to nearest five feet. Size modifier is 1 for a medium or smaller creature and increases .5 for every size category above medium. This replaces the standard D&D base speed.
Hustle(Immediate): A character moves twice their normal rate at a quick dogtrot. The character gains a +2 bonus on any attack rolls and a -2 penalty to their armor class during this tick. They gain a +2 bonus on strength checks to Bull Rush and mounted characters do double damage as if charging, and counts as if charging for double damage from weapons set against a charge.
Run(Immediate): A character moves four times their normal move speed at a sprint. They lose their dexterity bonus to AC unless they possess the Run feat (which improves speed to move x5 or x4 in heavy armor).The character gains a +2 bonus on any attack rolls and a -2 penalty to their armor class during this tick. They gain a +2 bonus on strength checks to Bull Rush and mounted characters do double damage as if charging, and counts as if charging for double damage from weapons set against a charge.
Withdraw(3): When you withdraw, you can move up to double your speed. The square you start out in is not considered threatened by any opponent you can see, and therefore visible enemies do not get attacks of opportunity against you when you move from that square. (Invisible enemies still get attacks of opportunity against you, and you can’t withdraw from combat if you’re blinded.) If, during the process of withdrawing, you move out of a threatened square (other than the one you started in), enemies get attacks of opportunity as normal. You may not withdraw using a form of movement for which you don’t have a listed speed. Note that despite the name of this action, you don’t actually have to leave combat entirely.
Aim(3): Can be used with both melee and ranged attacks. For each sequential tick of aiming adds a +1 bonus to attack bonus and increases the critical threat range of the character's next attack by the same amount. May be aborted in favor of an attack any tick after the first, gaining all appropriate bonuses. If aborted for any other action than an attack the bonuses are lost.
Total Defense(3): Rather than attack you devote your full concentration to defending yourself. Characters gain a +4 dodge to AC. May be aborted in favor of another action any tick after the first, the bonus to AC is lost when a Total Defense action is aborted.
Attack(4): You make a single attack. The action time for this is reduced by high BAB, for every 6BAB reduce action time by 1 to a minimum of 1. This action may be taken once per tick without flurrying.
Flurry(varies): A quick series of attacks or standard actions rolled on a single tick. Any creature can flurry a number of actions equal to half its number of natural attacks without penalty, if exceeded penalties accrue at a rate of 1 per action to attack bonus and armor class and 2 per action to skill checks. Base speed is equal to the fastest action speed taken, modified if over the limit by a cumulative +1 for every action after this, a flurry can have an action time no greater than 6.
Counterspell(Immediate): If a character has the proper spell or spells prepared they may use them to counterspell as an immediate action.
Spellcasting(3): Spells that do not specify any other casting time have an action time of 3 ticks.

Have revised the system slightly for clarification.

Next post will be example combat.

 

[Yair]

OK, HeavenShallBurn, things are clearer (to me) now. You'll have to excuse me, I'm one game system and several playtests behind you.

Things make much more sense now, what with dash and all. You make some very good points, and I agree with most of what you say now. I still have some conceptual problems, however.

When you act the number beside the action is how many ticks until you can act again. They don't need to decide both their current and next action, the first action determines how long until they can make their next action.

I'm pretty sure I'm not understanding this correctly, as this doesn't really make sense IMO. How is it I can make a very time-consuming action NOW but then have to wait a long time before moving on to the next action? Consider the following scenario:

Sworder the lowly swordman is facing off a goblin horde. Surrounded, he flurries a dozen attacks together, felling 12 goblins in a single second. This owe-inspiring feat has a cost of 15 ticks (base 4, plus 1 per extra attack). For the next 15 seconds the swordman takes no action, calmly letting the rest of the horde assault him. He moves about and defends himself, but for some reason does not attack. When his friend calls out to him to pick up their wounded comrade and take him to the medic, he fails to do so. Perhaps he is dazed by his own accomplishment.

Or even:
Rog stared at the complex lock [arbitrary very long, 60 tick-cost action]. "It will take a minute to lockpick it, at least" he lamented. "No time" said Fighty, "the goblins are upon us!" And indeed, as he spoke black-ribbed arrows scattered around them. "Oh" smiled Rog, in that case I will open it directly". Drawing out his thief tools, he opened the door in but a second. As everyone sped past it, Fighty called on Rog to close it behind them. "Oh no" said Rog, "you'll have to do that yourself. I can move [Immediate action] and speak [not-an-action], but I can't close any doors for the next minute or so [until his next action]".

I understood the cost is the time needed to complete the action, rather than how much time to wait after the action before the next action. Under this scheme, the process will look more like this:

Sworder the great swordmaster is facing off a goblin horde. Surrounded, he lashes out at the horde with blinding speed. Sacrificing speed for accuracy [the flurry option allows him to make several attacks at the same time at a penalty], he stroke fast. Within a single round, twelve goblins lay dead before him. When his friend later called out to him to pick up their wounded comrade and take him to the medic, he did just that [he isn't locked out of taking new actions].

Rog stared at the complex lock [arbitrary very long, 60 tick-cost action]. "It will take a minute to lockpick it, at least" he lamented. "No time" said Fighty, "the goblins are upon us!" And indeed, as he spoke black-ribbed arrows scattered around them. "Oh" said Rog, taking cover. "In that case, we better come up with an alternate plan".

I confess my version seems far more agreeable to me. (Although I'm far from decided on how Flurry should work; I agree it's a good idea in principle to let people act faster in exchange for penalties.)

No it doesn't really fit well but I haven't found a way to make it work in d20 without them because of the other actions keyed off them for timing.

At this point I'm more concerned with fitting the system into general D&D gameplay rather than to fit it with specific rules that interact with the standard/move/full-round mechanics. I suspect there aren't that many such rules anyways.

Actually counting it out loud is the hardest way to make it work. Since it was originally for Exalted I use the Battlewheel to track timing. Basically it's a big circle divided into ten pie-pieces with a marker for each player and each group of enemies that is placed into the appropriate section and a marker to indicated which tick you're on currently. You rotate the indicator around the circle one tick at a time and as you hit each marker that group/groups makes it's move and shift their pieces down the appropriate number of sections to the next tick where they can act. I use an old board game spinner with the sections recolored and the spinner indicates which tick is current.

Interesting. Such a method might work well, I'll have to think about it.

That's one of those details I should have added. I considered the initial time between the first action and the second to be flat-footed, the equivalent of the surprise round. But I actually like your version better.

I kept the two types of attack together so as to not penalize ranged combat even further than it already is in the damage arena.

But ranged combat IS penalized. It is slower, draws attacks of opportunity, and produces less damage. More to the point, it was part of an attempt to maintain the balance of number of attacks within a round, but on second thought it doesn't work too well.

Good, quite good, however the closest equivalent to a full attack is a "flurry" where they can take multiple actions, including attack, in a single tick at a penalty directly related to how many actions they take and how many ticks those would normally set them back. It means that characters can actually make more attacks at an earlier level than their standard D&D equivalent per round.

Which isn't really a terribly good idea IMO, since multiple attacks can seriously harm balance. It also has a problem with meshing together non-attacks - what's the penalty of combining together, oh, several casting actions? There is no skill check or attack roll to penalize. I maintain that the full-attack is better represented by someone just attacking for an entire round. (But we need rules to allow this as a viable option - which treating movement as an immediate action does. Good, clean solution.)

I suggest instead allowing Flurry based on the two-weapon-fighting mechanics: allow two attacks, but with a -6 penalty. Reduce the penalty to -4 with the secondary weapon if you're using two weapons. Reduce the penalties to -4/-4 (or even -2/-2) if you have the two-weapon-fighting feat. Or something along those lines.

Note my changes have made Move a reflexive action rather than an action with a time. This really frees up characters to move about and makes combat much more fluid.

Which I must say is really great.

The size-based modifier is necessary, though I didn't find this out until the third play-test where a Huge black dragon was reduced to an utterly snail-like pace by the system. Without the size modifier a Huge black dragon, a creature more than 12ft high at the shoulder would be reduced to moving 12ft in a tick that's just about 1 step. Whereas a medium human would move 6ft(rounded down to 5) in the same time, which is just about right for a marching pace of 2 steps per second. So I added the modifier in order that a Large black dragon would walk at a pace of 18ft per second and a Huge one at 24ft per second. Each at roughly the same number of steps per second up the size chart to clean up movement rates.

OK. This problem really isn't related to your system, it is a problem with creature's movement rate in D&D. In a normal RAW D&D round, a Huge black dragon apparently makes about 6 steps whereas a human makes 12 steps. You've chosen to change the creature's speed. Fine. This really has nothing to do with your Battleque system, though. The system should basically say "Move Speed/5 per tick", and your unrelated house rule says "Add 0.5 per size category above Medium to Speed".

Charging and Running-Running is covered by the "Hustle" and "Dash" actions which I had to find the page I'd written them on, it's covered earlier in the post. They're not reflexive actions so they have an action time, but by flurrying them with one or more attacks it actually takes the place of charging and they don't have the straight line restriction either. I realize this is a major departure but I am trying to loosen up combat and make it more energetic and movement oriented.

This is a very good goal, and a very interesting mechanic to enable it. I think by itself it seems great, but I just can't agree with the method of "acting, then taking some ticks to do nothing in" your system seems to use. And my "wait x ticks, then act" suggestion, I can't really fit it in except as alternative modes of movement.

Every 6BAB reduce most action times, including attack, by one tick.

This is another sore point for me. Why "most action"? Why not just attacks? Why does the wizard require more time to draw out his scroll and read it than the fighter does? Base Attack Bonus should increase the speeds of attacks. Perhaps spellcaster level could lower the speed of spellcasting or something, I don't know. But I don't see why you need BAB to lower the speed of other actions anyways. High level D&D characters still take a full round to light a torch, just like they will take 6 ticks in your system.

I notice your revised system does mention BAB only for attacks. If this is your intention, then we're in agreement.

We did something like this a wile ago here's the thread:
http://www.enworld.org/showthread.php?t=170545

We ended up with getting rid of full round actions entirely and saying a standard action took time based on your BAB:
Action Time
0-5 7 ticks
6-10 6 ticks
11-16 5 ticks
16-19 4 ticks
20+ 3 ticks

edit:and movement was done per tick as opposed to all at once

Wll read soon.

 

[HeavenShallBurn]

I'm considering restricting the Flurry to attacks, movement, immediate, and free actions. Which would prevent the flurrying of spells altogether, something that's also done with Spells in Exalted where they can't be flurried at all.

I did reconsider the time reducing factor of BAB and restricted it solely to attacks where it seemed appropriate.

Regarding the action resolution within a tick, I've generally found immediate resolution better than letting the action hang in time with a resolution later. It's too easy to miss an action when you don't resolve them as they happen. Also just like D&D the tick is elastic as well and can stretch or compress a bit depending on what actions are happening as it's an arbitrary measure. If you ignore the Exalted specific mechanics and concentrate on the pacing of the combat this http://wiki.white-wolf.com/exalted/index.php/Second_Edition_Combat_201 is a good example of the timing aspect of combat under a BattleQue. One of the things it does is draw combat out in time, rather than the six-second round being the basic unit of time and most combat lasting only a few of those combat will seem to last much longer and be more active.

Regarding the Flurry action, I don't want to restrict it too heavily because I'm trying to create fluidity and restricting it too much would leave you with a system essentially no different than the existing one just in a different time-scale. This means that it can be abused but that should be discouraged by the penalties to the BAB or skill-check and by the increased action time you start flurrying really high numbers of actions together. (It relies on the player not to actively try to break the system, but ultimately if the players are doing that it doesn't matter what system you're using it stops being fun. If you try to mechanically prevent players from breaking the system you just end up making it too static and rigid.)

From your examples at the beginning, the goblin horde is just the place flurrying is supposed to shine. But instead of flurrying all twelve into a single tick you spread it over several smaller flurries. As an example Kill'Me(1st lvl Fighter) launches into a vicious assault, striking down four of the goblins the first tick(base 4+1 per extra attack) then spends the next seven ticks avoiding the blows of his enemies and catching his breath from the effort. On tick 8 he resumes his attack this time lashing out and splattering the entrails of five of the hideous little goblins across the walls(base 4+1 per extra attack) and strain of it forces him onto the defensive for eight ticks. The morale of the remaining goblins is broken and they began to back away down the corridor. On tick 16 enraged by their cowardice he chases the yellow little creatures and cuts them down like wheat(flurry Run(5)+3 attacks=8 ticks) but must now catch his breath before resuming the battle.

As to your example of the rogue and shutting the door I'd call shutting a door (Not An Action).

As to the flurrying based on Two-Weapon Fighting tree, I think that is overy harsh, but I would adjust the Two-Weapon Fighting path to reduce Flurry penalties.

$#@ Now I'm going to have to shift the example combat down one post.

EDIT: I'm considering two changes. The first is allowing Total Defense to be aborted after the first tick but not for an Aim or another Guard. The second is adding an AC penalty to Flurrying equal to the Action Time penalty.

 

[HeavenShallBurn]

First Four ticks of example combat

Here's the first four ticks of my latest example combat, it's late where I am and I'll finish typing it up from the notes tommorrow.

Example Combat

Cynefried the human rogue and Theodoeric the human barbarian are at the end of a 10ft wide dungeon corridor at a door. Twenty feet up the corridor it meets a corridor that opens off to the right. Hereward the human wizard is 20 ft up the side corridor examining an old inscription. Ten feet further up the corridor Soirin the human barbarian is watching the main corridor in case anything comes around the corner twenty feet further up. Back at the door Cynefried is standing back watching in disgust as Theodoeric viciously kicks the door trying to bash it in.

This has caught the attention of a patrol of orcs, they realize someone is present and come around the corridor with hostile intent, immediately seeing the humans in plain sight. Gashnak and Thud are in front across the corridor with Uugg behind Gashnak, all are barbarians. Gisell a cleric, also the leader of the patrol, is right behind Thud. This is exactly the sort of thing Soirin was waiting for. First we roll to see if anyone other than Soirin has noticed the Orcs (DC9). Cynefried=17, Hereward=6, Theodoeric=7. Cynefried has noticed the orcs, Hereward and Theodoeric have not. all 6 of them roll Reflex saves for Flat-Footed Time. Cynefried=16, Soirin=14, Gashnak=10, Thud=18, Uugg=11, Gisell=17. Thud has rolled highest he has a flat-footed time of 0 and acts immediately on tick 0. The rest subtract their reflex saves from his to get their flat-footed times(remember the max is 6), Cynefried=2, Soirin=4, Gashnak=6, Uugg=6, Gisell=1.

Thud may not be the brightest orc but he knows exactly what to do and wastes no time, taking a step forward and hurling the pair of javelins in his left hand at the closest human. Thud takes a 5ft step(an immediate action) and flurries two attacks with his javelin(attack 4 + one extra action 1=5 he will act again on tick 6. His first attack takes a penalty to BAB of 1 and is +3(1d6+4) his second attack is +2(1d6+4). He rolls a 23 on his first attack and a 7 on his second. The second attack is a clean miss but the first is a critical hit and does 1d6+4=5x2=10.

Soirin is sorely wounded with a javelin in his gut but like a true son of Crom no more than staggers, snapping off the javelin behind it's head and hefting his falchion with blood beginning to boil in anger.Down to 26hp.

It is now tick 1 and their leader Gisell has been sizing up the opposition. Judging by how successful Thud was he figures the pansy humans are going to be easy meat and calls upon the favor of his dark and all consuming lord.Gisell casts Divine Favor and gains a +1 bonus to attack bonus and damage, spellcasting(3) sets him back 3 ticks and he will act again on tick 5.

Now tick 2, back at the door Cynofried has gotten over his initial shock at the caliber of enemy they are facing and kicks Theodoeric shouting “Ambush” at the top of his lungs then takes off in the direction of fight at a run to prevent them from surrounding Soirin. Shouting and kicking Theodoeric are both examples of Not-An-Action and do not have an action time. He then Runs(5) and travels 25ft down the corridor. Alerted Theodeoric and Heward now make their own reflex saves to join the battle in progress. Theodoeric=17, Heward=8, 18-17=1, 18-8=10. Theodoeric acts may act in 1 tick on tick 3 and Heward may act in 6 on tick 9. Dropping the parchment he'd been laboriously translating the archaic orcish description of a lost city on Heward leaps to his feet but doesn't yet realize what is going on due to his earlier inattention.

Now tick 3. Theodoeric on the other hand realizes exactly what happened and can see his cousin Soirin is rather badly wounded, in response he hurls the first of his three javelins at Gashnak 55 feet away and begins marching toward the orcs ready to throw again the moment he gets an opening.he attacks(4) and will act again on tick 7. The attack is at +3(1d6+2), he rolls 18 and hits doing (1d6+2=7). As Cynefried is charging toward the fight one of Theodoeric's javelins whistles by him and puts a gash in one of the orc's armor but most of the force is turned by the boiled leather and it leaves blood slowly seeping out of the hole in the sliced leather.

Tick 4. Vision turning red with pain and anger at the attack Soirin boils over into a rage and leaps to the attack. he rages, gaining 6hp and all the other benefits (free action), he then moves forward(an immediate action) and makes an attack(4) and will act again on tick 9. He rolls for an attack at +7(2d4+5) and gets a 27 then a 14, just barely a confirmed critical hit for (2d4+5)x2=(11x2)=22. Dropping Thud to -5 hp. Thud is now dying and must roll a d% in six ticks or lose another hp. Whipped into a towering fury Soirin lands a solid blow with his falchion, slicing a massive gash through Thud's armor and laying open a great bleeding slice deep into the muscles of his chest ribs visible in the cut.

 

[Yair]

We did something like this a wile ago here's the thread:
http://www.enworld.org/showthread.php?t=170545

An interesting system. The concept of Reaction Time in particular is nice.
While more realistic, I'm afraid it feels too math intensive and complicated to me.

I'm considering restricting the Flurry to attacks, movement, immediate, and free actions. Which would prevent the flurrying of spells altogether, something that's also done with Spells in Exalted where they can't be flurried at all.

Flurrying movements together seems very odd to me - can I flurry three Moves to move faster?
You may take any number of free actions in principle, so you don't need to flurry them (unless the DM says so).
Flurrying immediate actions goes against the whole point of seperating immediate from free actions - you can't, for example, flurry two movement actions (Move being an immediate action), you need to Hustle or Run to move faster.

In short - you can flurry Attack actions. Other actions can't by default be flurried, althoguh the DM is of course always free to rule otherwise.
You can also combine certain actions with each other, but this has nothing to do with flurrying. You can combine any action with a single Immediate action, like combining an Attack with a Move. You can combine any action with any number of free actions, subject to DM limitation, such as combining the Attack and Move with speaking and spotting.

I did reconsider the time reducing factor of BAB and restricted it solely to attacks where it seemed appropriate.

Good.

Regarding the action resolution within a tick, I've generally found immediate resolution better than letting the action hang in time with a resolution later. It's too easy to miss an action when you don't resolve them as they happen.

The thread magic_gathering2001 linked to above also raises good criticisms of my suggestion: that gameplay is stuck while the player decides what to do.

Very well. Although this is unrealistic, so is no one acting for 6 seconds while you complete your action (in normal D&D, with the exception of AoOs). If Exalted and FF use it, it probably is for good reason too.

I would suggest a rule I've seen on the Exalted example: no action takes longer than a round (6 seconds; 5 in the Exalted example). This at least limits the absurdity to a round, much like it is in D&D.

Regarding the Flurry action, I don't want to restrict it too heavily because I'm trying to create fluidity and restricting it too much would leave you with a system essentially no different than the existing one just in a different time-scale. This means that it can be abused but that should be discouraged by the penalties to the BAB or skill-check and by the increased action time you start flurrying really high numbers of actions together. (It relies on the player not to actively try to break the system, but ultimately if the players are doing that it doesn't matter what system you're using it stops being fun. If you try to mechanically prevent players from breaking the system you just end up making it too static and rigid.)

Sorry, but that doesn't seem like a good way to build a system. EVERY player powergames to some extent, we don't want to design a system that breaks apart so easily. You also want to maintain D&D's balance and so on, no? That means the system should not vary so widely from being "just a different time scale". While it can enhance fluid and dynamic combat, it must do so with a mind to balance.

Allowing to flurry for more than a round's-worth of actions needlessly stretches believability IMO. Flurrying too much breaks the balance of the different class options and abilities in combat, requiring a far vaster overhaul of the system than just the initiative/combat system for the game to be enjoyable. (For example, the system of hp and AC is not designed to handle many multiple attacks per round at low level.)

But instead of flurrying all twelve into a single tick you spread it over several smaller flurries.

I suggest, again, limiting the action time to 6 ticks at most.

As an example Kill'Me(1st lvl Fighter) launches into a vicious assault, striking down four of the goblins the first tick(base 4+1 per extra attack) then spends the next seven ticks avoiding the blows of his enemies and catching his breath from the effort. On tick 8 he resumes his attack this time lashing out and splattering the entrails of five of the hideous little goblins across the walls(base 4+1 per extra attack) and strain of it forces him onto the defensive for eight ticks. The morale of the remaining goblins is broken and they began to back away down the corridor. On tick 16 enraged by their cowardice he chases the yellow little creatures and cuts them down like wheat(flurry Run(5)+3 attacks=8 ticks) but must now catch his breath before resuming the battle.

The mechanics do not relfect well fatigue or other explanations. For example, Kill'Me can still take other possibly very exerting Immediate actions, does not suffer penalties associated with being fatigued or exhausted, is not subject to effects based on these conditions, and so on. The lack of action on Kill'Me's part after his flurries is dues solely to the system's inability to cope with the situation. Instead of making up excuses, I would prefer to keep the narrative void of explanations, accepting the unrealistic nature of the game as part of the style. For this to be effective, however, overy long pauses need to be averted - hence my recommendation of a limit of one round (6 seconds).

The link to the Exalted example you provided read like their Flurry does not prolong the action. The action's time is just the highest-costing action within the flurry. The cost of a flurry is the lower chances to hit and the penalty to AC. I think this is a better model to represent doing things fast (which is essentially what flurry does). It doesn't increase unrealism by creating overly long actions.

Why can't Run become a mode of movement? Why should using it be complicated by the flurry mechanism? Isn't the same in-game effect of "my warrior runs towards the wizard as fast as he can, aiming to slash him before he can unleash his spell" be achieved? Why should it take 5 ticks to run a distance covered in 2 ticks of running speed? I suggest making all movement modes (Move, Hustle, Run) Immediate actions, with perhaps Withdraw as some other action (3-ticks?).

As to the flurrying based on Two-Weapon Fighting tree, I think that is overy harsh, but I would adjust the Two-Weapon Fighting path to reduce Flurry penalties.

I fail to see why limiting the flurry to only a single extra action without more feats would be a bad idea. It will keep the number of attacks per round more in-line with D&D's expectations. A character could take Improved Flurry and Greater Flurry to become even faster, just like Improved TWF and Greater TWF allow it extra attacks. Balance will be better maintained, action time and with unrealism will increase unduly, and the rules will be simpler and easier to follow.

$#@ Now I'm going to have to shift the example combat down one post.

Two posts.

EDIT: I'm considering two changes. The first is allowing Total Defense to be aborted after the first tick but not for an Aim or another Guard.

Not following. Why couldn't you stop Total Defense to take Aim?

The second is adding an AC penalty to Flurrying equal to the Action Time penalty.

I think adding a -1 penality to AC per extra action may go a long way towards making Flurry a more tactically interesting (i.e. balanced) option. (If you adopt my idea of making it for attacks only, this isn't necessary.)

 

[HeavenShallBurn]

!!!CHECK ABOVE HAVE REVISED SYSTEM IN LIGHT OF YOUR COMMENTS!!!
!!!5th Post Down From Top!!!

Flurrying movements together seems very odd to me - can I flurry three Moves to move faster?You may take any number of free actions in principle, so you don't need to flurry them (unless the DM says so). Flurrying immediate actions goes against the whole point of seperating immediate from free actions - you can't, for example, flurry two movement actions (Move being an immediate action), you need to Hustle or Run to move faster.

*Yep there's something to fix, restrict it to attacks and maybe? standard actions
*Reclassify all the movement actions as immediate actions so that they don't occupy time and can be mixed freely with attacks. Might adjust speed slightly in that case so that Run goes back to a default x4 move without the feat.
*There are certain aspects of Exalted's freedom with the Flurry action that I like, the problem is that the systems are so different trying to translate across is a difficult gap to jump. I'd like to retain the ability to mix some different actions together rather than just attacks in a flurry.

The thread magic_gathering2001 linked to above also raises good criticisms of my suggestion: that gameplay is stuck while the player decides what to do. Very well. Although this is unrealistic, so is no one acting for 6 seconds while you complete your action (in normal D&D, with the exception of AoOs). If Exalted and FF use it, it probably is for good reason too. I would suggest a rule I've seen on the Exalted example: no action takes longer than a round (6 seconds; 5 in the Exalted example). This at least limits the absurdity to a round, much like it is in D&D.

*Yeah the action time penalty doesn't exist in Exalted, it was my concession to trying to keep the number of actions being flurried down to more reasonable levels. But now it doesn't seem like it was a very successful idea in its present form.

Sorry, but that doesn't seem like a good way to build a system. EVERY player powergames to some extent, we don't want to design a system that breaks apart so easily. You also want to maintain D&D's balance and so on, no? That means the system should not vary so widely from being "just a different time scale". While it can enhance fluid and dynamic combat, it must do so with a mind to balance.

Allowing to flurry for more than a round's-worth of actions needlessly stretches believability IMO. Flurrying too much breaks the balance of the different class options and abilities in combat, requiring a far vaster overhaul of the system than just the initiative/combat system for the game to be enjoyable. (For example, the system of hp and AC is not designed to handle many multiple attacks per round at low level.)

*I'll agree it looks like a problem to be fixed on the end of being overly breakable in number of actions when there isn't a limiting factor. I'm willing to let balance drift a little to accomplish fluidity, right now without a limit it's drifted too much though.

I suggest, again, limiting the action time to 6 ticks at most.

*This is probably the best solution to the problem, it would allow even low-level characters more fluidity and while it would let them get in two more attacks than normal the BAB and AC penalties would largely compensate. It would still be slightly more deadly but the wonkiness would be lessened.

Why can't Run become a mode of movement? Why should using it be complicated by the flurry mechanism? Isn't the same in-game effect of "my warrior runs towards the wizard as fast as he can, aiming to slash him before he can unleash his spell" be achieved? Why should it take 5 ticks to run a distance covered in 2 ticks of running speed? I suggest making all movement modes (Move, Hustle, Run) Immediate actions, with perhaps Withdraw as some other action (3-ticks?).

*I've decided that's probably the best way to handle it after the latest testing and revision. Move, Hustle, and Run all Immediate actions and I think your Withdraw proposal looks balanced. It's basically the same speed as Total Defense.

I fail to see why limiting the flurry to only a single extra action without more feats would be a bad idea. It will keep the number of attacks per round more in-line with D&D's expectations. A character could take Improved Flurry and Greater Flurry to become even faster, just like Improved TWF and Greater TWF allow it extra attacks. Balance will be better maintained, action time and with unrealism will increase unduly, and the rules will be simpler and easier to follow.

*An overall limit on flurries to an Action Time of 6 would serve the same purpose without the hard limit. Overall I don't mind characters on either side getting a few extra attacks over the D&D standard even if it lets balance drift a bit, just so long as the difference doesn't get too extreme. With a time limit of 6 characters under 6BAB could still only manage the equivalent of 3 attacks per round which isn't two bad considering the BAB and AC penalty of it and avoids locking them down as much as the standard system.

Not following. Why couldn't you stop Total Defense to take Aim?

*Holdover from Exalted, I think I'll drop it as a restriction.

I think adding a -1 penality to AC per extra action may go a long way towards making Flurry a more tactically interesting (i.e. balanced) option. (If you adopt my idea of making it for attacks only, this isn't necessary.)

*I think restricting the actions further is valid, by increasing the movement modes to Immediate actions this can still support fluidity. I'd still like to keep the posibility of flurrying a standard action in with attacks for the ability to mix attacks with other actions. Such as escaping a grapple+an attack, or dismissing a spell or issuing a command to an animated object. Even better mix healing a partymember with attacking.
*Also allow a flurry to be aborted if one of its actions becomes invalid. But not pick and choose, just end the flurry with the invalid action but keep its full penalties and time.
*(this is definitely house rule territory)-Under the standard system counterspelling is very difficult in combat, so much so that you don't see it used much. Perhaps make Counterspell an Immediate action so that you no longer have to ready exactly the right spell? Instead if you have the proper spell prepared at that moment you can react to the enemy spell with a counterspell.