Exalted Battleque for d20


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Sorry for the thread-jacking, HeavenShallBurn. I shall return to discussing your system in the next post. :)

magic_gathering2001 said:
did i miss something?

other than the reaction time at the beginning of combat there isn't too much math.

I guess my question really is what are you talking about in specific?
Well, on a rearead your system is simpler in some ways but more complex in others. I don't think there is too much math, no. However, there are some elements I like less (sorry). I don't think you missed anything specific, I just am less attracted to some of its elements. Specifically:

Reaction Time seems a very interesting realistic idea, but I'm afraid I don't like it much in the final analysis. You gain about -1 tick per +10 in your Reflex save bonus, which is just too course-grained IMO. The problem with it's complexity isn't really with starting combat (where its use is actually simpler than in HeavenShallBurn's system) but rather with its use in interrupting actions. Besides being fairly long (3 seconds?! Driver reaction time is 1.5 seconds, an alert person can make a simple change like depressing a pedal in 0.7 seconds), this extra bit of realism I fear will complicate and slow down the game, plus give an advantage to high-Reflex characters. It also seems so realistic that I wonder why other times aren't put into the equation, like the time needed to assess the battlefield before deciding on a new action (which CAN indeed take up seconds). Frankly, given that D&D is a heroic game I am inclined to simply let reaction time be effectively zero or at most 1 second (the reaction time of an accomplished martial artist/professional driver can be much lower than that of the average man within his area of expertiese).

Movement is also complex, with the need to add up fractions and all. This isn't a problem that isn't shared with our system above, mind you.

There are a few other things I dislike. Having actions completed at the end of the action time is far more realistic but I was convinced by Abe.ebA and HeavenShallBurn that making the action at the beginning makes for better gameplay. I also dislike the uniform Action Time (although it is simple), and that BAB lowers the speed of all actions (so a fighter draws out a scroll or casts spells faster than a wizard). (For more realism, have Dexterity lower the action time, perhaps simply using the same table by replacing BAB with Dex in the heading; in this case Max Dex from armor can cap your speed. This is of course highly unbalanced.)

Overall, your system looks pretty sound and well. It's simpler in many ways than ours. I don't think you really forgot anything, and I'm sure you can play with it and have lots of fun. It's just less appealing to me than HeavenShallBurn's, sorry.
 
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!!!Latest Incarnation of the System!!!
Beginning to more fully flesh out the system now.
*Have added Swift actions since those are necessary to have a quickened spell which I don't want to disappear.
*Had to bring back the Partial Action from the 3.0 graveyard. With Move now an Immediate Action there needed to be another type for those that were previously move-equivalent and shorter than a Standard Action but more than a free action.
*Have some trouble placing Bull Rush, Overrun, and Readying an Action. Should Bull Rush and Overrun become immediate action like movement? Readying An action, should I make this a combat action in the vein of Total Defense with an action time of 3 that can be aborted?

BattleQue d20 Combat System

This combat system measures time in abstract units called ticks, each tick is by default approximately one second long. Combat always begins at tick 0 and advances forward one tick at a time until the end of the battle.

When characters take an action that would require the use of combat time to resolve their player must make a Reflex save to initiate combat. Doing this is an obviously hostile act that alerts everyone that can perceive the character and allows them to join the combat with Reflex saves of their own. Characters who are not aware may not take combat actions until they become aware at which point they can make a Reflex save to join the combat in progress.

When combat begins all combatants roll a Reflex save to determine their Flat-Footed Time. The highest save rolled has a Flat-Footed Time of 0 and acts on tick 0 (this may include multiple characters if their saves tie). All other Reflex saves are subtracted from the highest save and that result is the number of ticks until their Flat-Footed Time elapses, up to a maximum of 6. During their Flat-Footed Time a character may not take a combat action and is considered Flat-Footed. Characters who were unaware at the start of the combat may join the combat in progress once they become aware, at which point they roll a Reflex save and must wait their Flat-Footed Time before acting.

Characters act for the first time in combat when the tick count reaches their Flat-Footed Time. At this point they are no longer considered Flat-Footed and may take any applicable combat action, but they must act. All actions taken in the same tick are considered to occur simultaneously and are resolved at the end of the tick disregarding the effects of “previous” rolls. The action time of the actions taken by each character determine how many ticks they must wait to act again.

Actions Types(ticks):
Not an Action(0): these don't take any appreciable time. These include things like talking, making an attack of opportunity, and so on. You can make a Not-an-Action out of your turn.
Immediate Action(0): These take very little time. You can take them whether it is your tick to act or not, but you can only take one in any given tick.
Free(0): These take very little time. You can take them only when it is your tick to act.
Swift(0): A swift action consumes a very small amount of time, but represents a larger expenditure of effort and energy than a free action. You can perform one swift action on your tick to act without affecting your action time. Swift actions usually involve spellcasting or the activation of magic items; many characters (especially those who don't cast spells) never have an opportunity to take a swift action. Casting a quickened spell is a swift action. In addition, casting any spell with a casting time of 1 swift action is a swift action. Casting a spell with a casting time of 1 swift action does not provoke attacks of opportunity.
Partial(2): These actions are more time consuming than a Free Action but swifter than a Standard Action. This action may be taken once per tick without flurrying.
Standard(4): You make some action that takes up considerable time, such as activating a magic item, dismissing a spell, feinting in combat, controlling a frightened mount, or so on. This action may be taken once per tick without flurrying.
Full-Round Action(6): These actions take a minute to complete. These include delivering a coup de grace, lighting a torch, loading a heavy crossbow, and so on. [It does NOT include making a full-attack, which is replaced by Flurrying.]

Combat Actions(ticks or action type):
Move(Immediate): A character can move at (Speed/5)xSize Modifier per tick. Count only whole squares and round to nearest five feet. Size modifier is 1 for a medium or smaller creature and increases .5 for every size category above medium. This replaces the standard D&D base speed.
Hustle(Immediate): A character moves twice their normal rate at a quick dogtrot. The character gains a +2 bonus on any attack rolls and a -2 penalty to their armor class during this tick. They gain a +2 bonus on strength checks to Bull Rush and mounted characters do double damage as if charging, and counts as if charging for double damage from weapons set against a charge.
Run(Immediate): A character moves four times their normal move speed at a sprint. They lose their dexterity bonus to AC unless they possess the Run feat (which improves speed to move x5 or x4 in heavy armor).The character gains a +2 bonus on any attack rolls and a -2 penalty to their armor class during this tick. They gain a +2 bonus on strength checks to Bull Rush and mounted characters do double damage as if charging, and counts as if charging for double damage from weapons set against a charge.
Withdraw(3): When you withdraw, you can move up to double your speed. The square you start out in is not considered threatened by any opponent you can see, and therefore visible enemies do not get attacks of opportunity against you when you move from that square. (Invisible enemies still get attacks of opportunity against you, and you can’t withdraw from combat if you’re blinded.) If, during the process of withdrawing, you move out of a threatened square (other than the one you started in), enemies get attacks of opportunity as normal. You may not withdraw using a form of movement for which you don’t have a listed speed. Note that despite the name of this action, you don’t actually have to leave combat entirely.
Aim(3): Can be used with both melee and ranged attacks. For each sequential tick of aiming adds a +1 bonus to attack bonus and increases the critical threat range of the character's next attack by the same amount. May be aborted in favor of an attack any tick after the first, gaining all appropriate bonuses. If aborted for any other action than an attack the bonuses are lost.
Total Defense(3): Rather than attack you devote your full concentration to defending yourself. Characters gain a +4 dodge to AC. May be aborted in favor of another action any tick after the first, the bonus to AC is lost when a Total Defense action is aborted.
Attack(4): You make a single attack. The action time for this is reduced by high BAB, for every 6BAB reduce action time by 1 to a minimum of 1. This action may be taken once per tick without flurrying.
Flurry(varies): A quick series of attacks, partial actions or standard actions rolled on a single tick. Any creature can flurry a number of actions equal to half its number of natural attacks without penalty, if exceeded penalties accrue at a rate of 1 per action to attack bonus and armor class and 2 per action to skill checks. Base speed is equal to the fastest action speed taken, modified if over the limit by a cumulative +1 for every action after this, a flurry can have an action time no greater than 6.
Counterspell(Immediate): If a character has the proper spell or spells prepared they may use them to counterspell as an immediate action.
Spellcasting(3): Spells that do not specify any other casting time have an action time of 3 ticks. This includes supernatural or spell-like abilities that are not specified as using another action.


Not An Action:
Speak

Immediate Action:
Move
Hustle
Run
Counterspell
Make Spellcraft check on counterspell attempt
Cease Concentrating on a Spell
Dismiss a Spell
Drop An Item
Drop Prone
Lower Spell Resistance
Stand up From Prone (still provokes AoO)
Open or Shut a Door

Free Action:
Prepare Spell Components to Cast a Spell

Swift Action:
Cast a Quickened Spell

Partial Action:
Bull Rush? (should this be an immediate action to match movement?)
Overrun? (should this be an immediate action to match movement?)
Ready An Action? (I've gotten rid of several reasons to ready but not all, not sure where to put it now? Maybe Add it as an combat action like Total Defense that can be aborted?)
Load a Light Crossbow
Mount or Dismount
Control a frightened Mount
Move a Heavy Object
Pick Up An Item
Ready or Loose a Shield
Draw or Sheathe a Weapon
Retrieve a Stored Item
Prepare to Throw Splash Weapon

Standard Action:
Activate a Magic Item(other than a potion or oil)
Aid Another
Concentrate to Maintain an Active Spell
Draw a Hidden Weapon
Drink A Potion or Apply an Oil
Escape A Grapple
Feint
Light Torch with Tindertwig
Stabilize a Dying Character
Read a Scroll
Sunder a Weapon or Object
Turn or Rebuke Undead
Use Skill (that takes one action)

Full-Round Action:
Deliver a Coup de Grace
Escape from a Net
Extinguish Flames
Light a Torch
Load a Heavy or Repeating Crossbow
Lock or Unlock Weapon in Locked Gauntlet
Use Skill (that takes 1 round)
Use Touch Spell on Up to Six Allies

Count as Attacks:
Disarm
Grapple
Trip
 

HeavenShallBurn said:
!!!Latest Incarnation of the System!!!
Beginning to more fully flesh out the system now.
*Have added Swift actions since those are necessary to have a quickened spell which I don't want to disappear.
*Had to bring back the Partial Action from the 3.0 graveyard. With Move now an Immediate Action there needed to be another type for those that were previously move-equivalent and shorter than a Standard Action but more than a free action.
*Have some trouble placing Bull Rush, Overrun, and Readying an Action. Should Bull Rush and Overrun become immediate action like movement? Readying An action, should I make this a combat action in the vein of Total Defense with an action time of 3 that can be aborted?

BattleQue d20 Combat System

This combat system measures time in abstract units called ticks, each tick is by default approximately one second long. Combat always begins at tick 0 and advances forward one tick at a time until the end of the battle.

When characters take an action that would require the use of combat time to resolve their player must make a Reflex save to initiate combat. Doing this is an obviously hostile act that alerts everyone that can perceive the character and allows them to join the combat with Reflex saves of their own. Characters who are not aware may not take combat actions until they become aware at which point they can make a Reflex save to join the combat in progress.

When combat begins all combatants roll a Reflex save to determine their Flat-Footed Time. The highest save rolled has a Flat-Footed Time of 0 and acts on tick 0 (this may include multiple characters if their saves tie). All other Reflex saves are subtracted from the highest save and that result is the number of ticks until their Flat-Footed Time elapses, up to a maximum of 6. During their Flat-Footed Time a character may not take a combat action and is considered Flat-Footed. Characters who were unaware at the start of the combat may join the combat in progress once they become aware, at which point they roll a Reflex save and must wait their Flat-Footed Time before acting.

Characters act for the first time in combat when the tick count reaches their Flat-Footed Time. At this point they are no longer considered Flat-Footed and may take any applicable combat action, but they must act. All actions taken in the same tick are considered to occur simultaneously and are resolved at the end of the tick disregarding the effects of “previous” rolls. The action time of the actions taken by each character determine how many ticks they must wait to act again.

Actions Types(ticks):
Not an Action(0): these don't take any appreciable time. These include things like talking, making an attack of opportunity, and so on. You can make a Not-an-Action out of your turn.
Immediate Action(0): These take very little time. You can take them whether it is your tick to act or not, but you can only take one in any given tick.
Free(0): These take very little time. You can take them only when it is your tick to act.
Swift(0): A swift action consumes a very small amount of time, but represents a larger expenditure of effort and energy than a free action. You can perform one swift action on your tick to act without affecting your action time. Swift actions usually involve spellcasting or the activation of magic items; many characters (especially those who don't cast spells) never have an opportunity to take a swift action. Casting a quickened spell is a swift action. In addition, casting any spell with a casting time of 1 swift action is a swift action. Casting a spell with a casting time of 1 swift action does not provoke attacks of opportunity.
Partial(2): These actions are more time consuming than a Free Action but swifter than a Standard Action. This action may be taken once per tick without flurrying.
Standard(4): You make some action that takes up considerable time, such as activating a magic item, dismissing a spell, feinting in combat, controlling a frightened mount, or so on. This action may be taken once per tick without flurrying.
Full-Round Action(6): These actions take a minute to complete. These include delivering a coup de grace, lighting a torch, loading a heavy crossbow, and so on. [It does NOT include making a full-attack, which is replaced by Flurrying.]

Combat Actions(ticks or action type):
Move(Immediate): A character can move at (Speed/5)xSize Modifier per tick. Count only whole squares and round to nearest five feet. Size modifier is 1 for a medium or smaller creature and increases .5 for every size category above medium. This replaces the standard D&D base speed.
Hustle(Immediate): A character moves twice their normal rate at a quick dogtrot. The character gains a +2 bonus on any attack rolls and a -2 penalty to their armor class during this tick. They gain a +2 bonus on strength checks to Bull Rush and mounted characters do double damage as if charging, and counts as if charging for double damage from weapons set against a charge.
Run(Immediate): A character moves four times their normal move speed at a sprint. They lose their dexterity bonus to AC unless they possess the Run feat (which improves speed to move x5 or x4 in heavy armor).The character gains a +2 bonus on any attack rolls and a -2 penalty to their armor class during this tick. They gain a +2 bonus on strength checks to Bull Rush and mounted characters do double damage as if charging, and counts as if charging for double damage from weapons set against a charge.
Withdraw(3): When you withdraw, you can move up to double your speed. The square you start out in is not considered threatened by any opponent you can see, and therefore visible enemies do not get attacks of opportunity against you when you move from that square. (Invisible enemies still get attacks of opportunity against you, and you can’t withdraw from combat if you’re blinded.) If, during the process of withdrawing, you move out of a threatened square (other than the one you started in), enemies get attacks of opportunity as normal. You may not withdraw using a form of movement for which you don’t have a listed speed. Note that despite the name of this action, you don’t actually have to leave combat entirely.
Aim(3): Can be used with both melee and ranged attacks. For each sequential tick of aiming adds a +1 bonus to attack bonus and increases the critical threat range of the character's next attack by the same amount. May be aborted in favor of an attack any tick after the first, gaining all appropriate bonuses. If aborted for any other action than an attack the bonuses are lost.
Total Defense(3): Rather than attack you devote your full concentration to defending yourself. Characters gain a +4 dodge to AC. May be aborted in favor of another action any tick after the first, the bonus to AC is lost when a Total Defense action is aborted.
Attack(4): You make a single attack. The action time for this is reduced by high BAB, for every 6BAB reduce action time by 1 to a minimum of 1. This action may be taken once per tick without flurrying.
Flurry(varies): A quick series of attacks, partial actions or standard actions rolled on a single tick. Any creature can flurry a number of actions equal to half its number of natural attacks without penalty, if exceeded penalties accrue at a rate of 1 per action to attack bonus and armor class and 2 per action to skill checks. Base speed is equal to the fastest action speed taken, modified if over the limit by a cumulative +1 for every action after this, a flurry can have an action time no greater than 6.
Counterspell(Immediate): If a character has the proper spell or spells prepared they may use them to counterspell as an immediate action.
Spellcasting(3): Spells that do not specify any other casting time have an action time of 3 ticks. This includes supernatural or spell-like abilities that are not specified as using another action.


Not An Action:
Speak

Immediate Action:
Move
Hustle
Run
Counterspell
Make Spellcraft check on counterspell attempt
Cease Concentrating on a Spell
Dismiss a Spell
Drop An Item
Drop Prone
Lower Spell Resistance
Stand up From Prone (still provokes AoO)
Open or Shut a Door

Free Action:
Prepare Spell Components to Cast a Spell

Swift Action:
Cast a Quickened Spell

Partial Action:
Bull Rush? (should this be an immediate action to match movement?)
Overrun? (should this be an immediate action to match movement?)
Ready An Action? (I've gotten rid of several reasons to ready but not all, not sure where to put it now? Maybe Add it as an combat action like Total Defense that can be aborted?)
Load a Light Crossbow
Mount or Dismount
Control a frightened Mount
Move a Heavy Object
Pick Up An Item
Ready or Loose a Shield
Draw or Sheathe a Weapon
Retrieve a Stored Item
Prepare to Throw Splash Weapon

Standard Action:
Activate a Magic Item(other than a potion or oil)
Aid Another
Concentrate to Maintain an Active Spell
Draw a Hidden Weapon
Drink A Potion or Apply an Oil
Escape A Grapple
Feint
Light Torch with Tindertwig
Stabilize a Dying Character
Read a Scroll
Sunder a Weapon or Object
Turn or Rebuke Undead
Use Skill (that takes one action)

Full-Round Action:
Deliver a Coup de Grace
Escape from a Net
Extinguish Flames
Light a Torch
Load a Heavy or Repeating Crossbow
Lock or Unlock Weapon in Locked Gauntlet
Use Skill (that takes 1 round)
Use Touch Spell on Up to Six Allies

Count as Attacks:
Disarm
Grapple
Trip
I've been mum on this thread, but I think you guys are doing some brilliant game design. If you can only know how annoying initiative is to me. It's one of hte only times i actually feel like i'm playing a game. I'll be playtesting this system soon.
 

DonTadow said:
I've been mum on this thread, but I think you guys are doing some brilliant game design. If you can only know how annoying initiative is to me. It's one of hte only times i actually feel like i'm playing a game. I'll be playtesting this system soon.

Thanks, I'm glad other people find my attempt worthwile. If you have anything to add feel free I still consider the system experimental at the moment. I'll admit I've put some serious changes in.

My last playtest was in two parts and it showed me a couple of things.
*One, this system can be both more flexible and faster-paced than the standard.
*Two, it seems somewhat more lethal at all levels than the basic combat system, it's not just the actions you take but the sequence you take them in that matter.
*Third, my change to counterspelling has actually made the wizard's duel plausible. With counterspell and the associated spellcraft check an Immediate action it means spellcasters of approximately the same level will go back and forth counterspelling each other far more successfully than before.

If anyone has suggestions regarding Bull Rush and Overrun I'd love to hear them because right now I'm having trouble placing them in a category. I am going to experiment with making Ready a combat action like Total Defense, it would have an action time of 3 and could be aborted.
 

HeavenShallBurn said:
Thanks, I'm glad other people find my attempt worthwile. If you have anything to add feel free I still consider the system experimental at the moment. I'll admit I've put some serious changes in.

My last playtest was in two parts and it showed me a couple of things.
*One, this system can be both more flexible and faster-paced than the standard.
*Two, it seems somewhat more lethal at all levels than the basic combat system, it's not just the actions you take but the sequence you take them in that matter.
*Third, my change to counterspelling has actually made the wizard's duel plausible. With counterspell and the associated spellcraft check an Immediate action it means spellcasters of approximately the same level will go back and forth counterspelling each other far more successfully than before.

If anyone has suggestions regarding Bull Rush and Overrun I'd love to hear them because right now I'm having trouble placing them in a category. I am going to experiment with making Ready a combat action like Total Defense, it would have an action time of 3 and could be aborted.
How do you go about keeping track of this. More specifically, how do you track initiative now. Do you use a special program. Whats the tricks or faults in tracking considering the system.
 

DonTadow said:
How do you go about keeping track of this. More specifically, how do you track initiative now. Do you use a special program. Whats the tricks or faults in tracking considering the system.

First, Initiative?
*Instead of Initiative each combatant makes a Reflex Save, and the highest acts on Tick 0, everyone else subtracts their Reflex Save from the highest and the result is how many ticks until they can first act. This is capped at 6 and during this time they are considered Flat-Footed.

Second, How Do I Keep Track?
*There are a couple ways.
-The simplest involves a piece of graph paper marked into columns for the characters involved and the rows are ticks starting at 0. You mark down the actions times and then go down one tick at a time with characters taking actions as appropriate on each tick. As each character takes an action you mark their new action time and at the end ot the tick you cross out all the old marks then proceed.
-Since I ripped this system from Exalted and modified it to fit d20 I use the Battlewheel I made for our shortlived Exalted game. It's the spinner from an old board game removed from the board and modified into ten section of different colors with a prominent 0 on one section and the spinner itself indicates which tick is current. You give each PC and each NPC or group of NPCs a figure or mini to represent them and start by placing them on the appropriate section. Then you work your way around the board from 0 and each time an action is taken with an action time you move the figure down the proper number of ticks.

Key Tricks
*Perhaps the most important thing to remember is that all actions that occur on the same tick are considered to happen simulataneously, they ignore the effects of "previous" rolls. This means you should always start with NPC actions in a tick so that PCs have the ability to react to them. Basically you resolve the NPC actions, then resolve the PC actions, and at the end of all actions in that tick you describe what actually happened as a result of the interaction, no action really happens until the end of the tick and then mechanics wise they ALL happen.
 
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If you want to playtest online im happy to help

the system itself looks good, although im not sure i think flurrying is balanced against the current system. The armor class might do it though
 

I was brought into this thread and I gotta say Im throughly impressed with this system. Although it took me a 31 page print out and the better half of a day to understand its still vastly superior to the standard 3.5 mechanics. It takes alot of bordem out of comabat, keeps it fast paced, and makes it exciting all while keeping the balance of the 3.5 standard mechanics.
As for it taking a while to understand or grasp this, in my opinion, is a system that is alot easier to experience and play than it is to read and understand. '

For the benefit of people who are not so system-machinically gifted, is it possible to see a "published version" or an idiot proof explaination? I would like to use this system but feal the instruction of the system would go better if I had maybe a print out or booklet that I could hand out to the players. I would do it myself but I still feel that I may not be completely understanding everything and for perfection's sake, would rather get it from the source than second hand writting.
 

Nikroecyst said:
I was brought into this thread and I gotta say Im throughly impressed with this system. Although it took me a 31 page print out and the better half of a day to understand its still vastly superior to the standard 3.5 mechanics. It takes alot of bordem out of comabat, keeps it fast paced, and makes it exciting all while keeping the balance of the 3.5 standard mechanics.
As for it taking a while to understand or grasp this, in my opinion, is a system that is alot easier to experience and play than it is to read and understand.

I appreciate the interest in my system, to my eyes it's still experimental and could probably do with a few more alterations. At the moment my copies have wikicode all in them, I'll clean the latest one up and add an example combat to it then post it here as a pdf.
 

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