Excerpt: Archons (merged)

lutecius said:
Yeah it may fit the new fluff. I still find it counterintuitive and messy.
And does everything in 4e have to be elemental? Angels, some devils, titans...
Angels and Devils aren't elemental (except Ice Devils, who apparently are Demons hired by Mephistopheles). Angels are close to being elemental, but instead of the natural elements, they are "philophical" elements - beings of Valor, Vengeance etc.
 

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Based on this preview, and due to problems my character had with difficult terrain in a recent playtest, elf is looking better and better as racial choice.
 

Plane Sailing said:
I find myself wondering why they don't just get called elementals - maybe elementals are very different from them in some way? There is that curious comment about elementals being blends of elements.

See the key thing is that they are elementals.

When the primordials saw armies of angels, they developed an army of their own: elementals-turned-soldiers called archons, each invested with the power of a specific element.

They are essentially domesticated elementals turned mercenaries with the fall of the perimordials.
 

This preview seems to be at odds with the Fire Archon preview.

The Fire Archon preview had a quite long paragraph about their society, about their military structure, the importance of the number 5 and that they keep slaves to preform work.

That doesn't sound like "they have no culture or society of their own"
 

Mustrum_Ridcully said:
Angels and Devils aren't elemental (except Ice Devils, who apparently are Demons hired by Mephistopheles). Angels are close to being elemental, but instead of the natural elements, they are "philophical" elements - beings of Valor, Vengeance etc.
yeah, that's how they're called. But when you look at them...
fire, lightning, cold damage, they turn into pillars of blue flame.
The first thing that comes to mind when you see the art is "elemental".
the pics for angels of valor and vengeance could almost work for fire and ice archons
 

I cannot help but notice that the ice archons do not appear to be vulnerable to fire. Not even vulnerable 1. I do not think that I like that.

Amusing observation: Hailscourges can become liches, and benefit from pretty much all lich powers, with only some overlap in the immunities.

I still don't like them being called archons.

Elementals mix elements and energy types... I'll have to see what that's about before I decide whether I like it.
 

Ten said:
This viewpoint seems to be prevalent, and I can't help but to disagree with it. To me, it is a matter of Occam's Razor. Rather than some insidious plot to relieve fools from their money by deliberately removing monsters from the monster manual for use later...I find it much more simple and much more likely that there were a crapload of monsters, including iconic ones from decades of game history, cool ones they felt needed a time to get in the spotlight, and new ones they wanted to throw out to try the waters, and they had to draw the line somewhere. Where they drew the line is arbitrary in the end, the point being that they chose a certain book length, filled it with monsters, and then stopped adding more monsters.

This.

Lord Tirian said:
Yes. But has also provoked 2 OAs. If both hit, X has taken 10d6+14 damage, just to get there. And the ice archons can easily go into flanking position again, next round. These are NASTY buggers, if you're soft and squishy.

Many PCs have the ability to avoid OAs or shift opponents. Let's hope if you're stuck in this situation that you do.

Knight Otu said:
I cannot help but notice that the ice archons do not appear to be vulnerable to fire. Not even vulnerable 1. I do not think that I like that.

I'm not sure it makes sense for them to be vulnerable to fire. You could easily argue that their cold nature means they can negate the damaging effects of fire better than a fleshy could.
 

lutecius said:
- "the archons remain in the service of great powers that reside within the Elemental Chaos: Efreeti pashas, primordial nagas, salamander lords, and not a few demon princes."
Messy. I don't like the idea of demons being lumped with elementals. If anything, I can imagine efreets having ties to devils. Twisted elemental demons I could see (and I think we will see), but I can't picture demons, especially as described in 4e, being served by these stoic elementals.

I think it's just a matter of (as the real estate agent said) Location, Location, Location.

Archons make up armies native to the Elemental Chaos. Most powerful figures living there are going to have some archons bent to their will as a simple matter of convenience. Demons live in a giant sinkhole in the center of the Elemental Chaos. If you're a demon lord and you're looking for some servants a little more reliable than your regular demon minions, the archons are a natural choice.
 


ForbidenMaster said:
But he could take a double move to get out for a total of 4 spaces.


. . X
. . 3
**2**
*A*A*
*****

You may be right, but of course that would use up your whole turn and the Rimehammers could just come back at you again next turn and do the same thing all over.

However... can you actually take a double move while Slowed? I had assumed that you couldn't, but on second thought I don't see why not. Still, I don't think you'd ever get away from these guys that way.
 

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