Excerpt: Fallcrest

[Hussar]

No everage player will ever care about that, or even wonder about it. Only zealous world builders will do that and we all know that 4E isn't about that, it's about having a fun action game to play. Why should anybody care if in their game's favorite town their is less farmers than a real world equivalent town? DnD isn't about farming, it's about heroic deeds and kickin dragon butts.

This.

I mean, come on. As a player, what's the population of Orlane? Hommlet? Saltmarsh? Did you ask? Did you remotely, even in the slightest, give the tiniest bit of though to the ratio of farmers to townspeople? Come on. No one cares.

You describe the town to the players as, "You pass through some outlying farms and come to the largish town." End of story. All this world building simulationist wankery is ridiculous. You want that level of detail, play Harn or Gurps. Since when has D&D even remotely given the slightest nod towards the gripes we're seeing here?

 

[Andor]

No everage player will ever care about that, or even wonder about it. Only zealous world builders will do that and we all know that 4E isn't about that, it's about having a fun action game to play. Why should anybody care if in their game's favorite town their is less farmers than a real world equivalent town? DnD isn't about farming, it's about heroic deeds and kickin dragon butts.

I've seen games come to a screeching halt over stuff like this. Why? We needed to evacuate the valley due to an oncoming Orc horde, and since we knew how many people were in town we started making evacuation plans based on a guess of the valleys population. It turned out the GM was using different numbers, and we got derailed into figureing out how food and logistics worked in the campaign, since it differed markedly from real world expectations and the GM hadn't worked it out before hand.

Perhaps warning farmers and protecting an evacuation isn't heroic enough for you though...

 

[small pumpkin man]

I've seen games come to a screeching halt over stuff like this. Why? We needed to evacuate the valley due to an oncoming Orc horde, and since we knew how many people were in town we started making evacuation plans based on a guess of the valleys population. It turned out the GM was using different numbers, and we got derailed into figureing out how food and logistics worked in the campaign, since it differed markedly from real world expectations and the GM hadn't worked it out before hand.

Perhaps warning farmers and protecting an evacuation isn't heroic enough for you though...

That's a problem with communication, not worldbuilding.

 

[Andor]

You describe the town to the players as, "You pass through some outlying farms and come to the largish town." End of story. All this world building simulationist wankery is ridiculous. You want that level of detail, play Harn or Gurps. Since when has D&D even remotely given the slightest nod towards the gripes we're seeing here?

Who's griping? Those of us who care have sussed out several adventure possibilities, suggested by the need for an explanation. The only people whining as you lot who are apparently offended that we enjoy discussing this stuff.

Sorry if our thinking too much offends you...

 

[Hussar]

Who's griping? Those of us who care have sussed out several adventure possibilities, suggested by the need for an explanation. The only people whining as you lot who are apparently offended that we enjoy discussing this stuff.

Sorry if our thinking too much offends you...

Adventure possibilities? Sorry, must have missed that in the whinging about how there are too many guards as a percentage of population, or not enough farmers to support, or the price of walls would be too much or ...

Well, you get the point.

Heck, take a look at evacuating the village. Well, we know there's a couple of thousand people, so, the DM says, "Ok, the people follow you, they have about six days of food and water. What do you do." Instead of spending several hours trying to count the number of angels that can dance on the head of a pin.

 

[Hussar]

Hang on a tick.

About the population distribution. It's 1300 in town with another 900 scattered within a few miles. So, everything on that map is considered in town. Just looking at the map, you can see farms. So, at least some of that 1300 are farmers. It's not that there are only 900 farmers. There could easily be 1500 farmers and 700 towns people. Or whatever ratio tickles your fancy.

 

[Andor]

Adventure possibilities? Sorry, must have missed that in the whinging about how there are too many guards as a percentage of population, or not enough farmers to support, or the price of walls would be too much or ...

Well, you get the point.

Not really. There was no whining about the numbers before Vampyre and you, just discussion.

Except for the wall, and that was someone who hadn't paid attention. So no, I don't get your point.

Why does it offend you that some people like to discuss aspects of world design that don't interest you? Why not ignore it, rather than raise a stink about our badwrongfun?

 

[Spatula]

I mean, come on. As a player, what's the population of Orlane? Hommlet? Saltmarsh? Did you ask? Did you remotely, even in the slightest, give the tiniest bit of though to the ratio of farmers to townspeople? Come on. No one cares.

And yet, the majority of the Fallcrest excerpt is stuff that "no one cares" about. So why is it there in the DMG?

 

[Dr. Strangemonkey]

Here's what I don't get about the urban vs rural population gripe.

This is a rural population. Heck a good Pueblo in the American Southwest could boast better numbers than this and though those were civil they certainly weren't urban. Mind you maize is a better producing crop than wheat, but they would have also lacked domestic animals and were working in a far more hostile environment.

I like that the layout really reflects the feel of ruined city like Rome.

People probably have pasturage and working gardens within the ruins of the city walls.

 

[Hussar]

And yet, the majority of the Fallcrest excerpt is stuff that "no one cares" about. So why is it there in the DMG?

Really? The majority of the excerpt is material that will directly impact the PC's. The merchant who buys your ill gotten loot and sells you magic items. The temples where you get healed/res'd after dying. The inn, the tavern and the supply post. Gee, all stuff directly related to what PC's are likely going to be doing.

What you don't see are six page documents detailing the shape of windows. Or lengthy treatises regarding the ratio of farmers to population. Or how much money that wall cost to construct.

Y'know, the unimportant that no one other than world builders care about.